M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[damo666]

and why do you think scum have advised him to be quiet when its clearly making people scumread him hard, while him talking made people townread him?

Not so sure on that one tbh. Gonna reread him. Maybe he put his foot in it somewhere and was told to shut up. Maybe his teammates are very vocal and they want a mix. Maybe he is just busy. I don't trust him though.

[Jamiet99uk]

Damo is voting for Ghug
Vecna scumreads Ghug
Kgray scumreads Ghug
Rdrivera scumreads Ghug

I scumread Ghug
I think we should dispose of Ghug today

##VOTE GHUG

Can you explain why anyone scumreads ghug?

I suppose I'm going to have to set out a big case on why Ghug could be scum. I will try to do this in the next few hours. My scumread is partly down to instinct which is not the best reason. He started a push on me based on a lie, and then at various times renewed that push, sometimes very aggressively and often on the basis of what appeared to be deliberate twistings of my words. Yet at other times when it's suited him to try to get my support for whatever else he's pushing, he's suddenly flipped to townreading me and being all polite to me.

I'll tell you one thing that bothers me. Several people have included Ghug in their scumreads, over multiple days, yet many of these same people seem very reluctant to actually vote for Ghug. What does that suggest?

[damo666]

@Jamie

Assuming you are right about ghug (I'm unconvinced) how about

Seth ghug rdr Bunny

That work?

[damo666]

@Macca

Good stuff on Seth. I think we got him.

Join the Seth wagon people.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Jamie

Assuming you are right about ghug (I'm unconvinced) how about

Seth ghug rdr Bunny

That work?

I can see that being more than 50% right.

Damo, you voted Ghug for a significant part of today. What changed your mind? Why are you now unconvinced, when earlier you were voting for Ghug?

[Jamiet99uk]

I want anyone who scumreads Ghug to explain why they won't vote for him today. This is becoming deeply suspicious the more I think about it. I urge anyone who things Ghug is scum to show they have the courage of their convictions and vote for him.

[Jamiet99uk]

*thinks Ghug is scum
(damn autocorrect)

[BunnyGo]

I thought that was just TiredBunny

Correct, no drink last night.

[BunnyGo]

@Bunny have your marbles gone astray?

You have said in the past you have a tell on me. I can assure you it is not evident.

This is true. I played 2 games in a row as scum with you. One of them I subbed in to a badly losing position. You were bored and despondent both games. I even begged you not to surrender after I died and you did. The next game you were bored again and were scum again.

But maybe you adjusted, or maybe had enough town in a row, or maybe when you're winning the tell doesn't work. i dunno. That post was triggering that I'm reconsidering the tell.

[BunnyGo]

its the nature of the game and how people function

##unvote

I actually went and looked up the timing/tab thing and it checks out

I think I missed this reference, can you elaborate?

[BunnyGo]

I'm glad the Macca case has collapsed. I thought it too elaborate.

Macca is not quite as town as Jamie, darg and Vecna but certainly the town side of null.

Why in g-d's name is darg town?

[BunnyGo]

I don't buy this either, Bunny.

Ghug jokingly said that Kgray had killed Hamilton.

You know that Hamilton died due to being Modkilled. So he could not have been killed by Kgray. We know that you know that, because you commented on how you felt the GM's decision was "harsh" at the time. Now you are behaving as if you did not know this.

You're a lawyer. You must study philosophy. At the time I wrote that, I didn't know anything about how Hamilton died. Having been reminded of it, I do know.

What do you mean you didn't know?
You're saying you just completely forgot this information that you previously clearly knew, yes?

Yes. The sleep deprived and stressed Bunny who made that post had not known much about the game, and just posted rather than do the research.

[Jamiet99uk]

You're a lawyer. You must study philosophy. At the time I wrote that, I didn't know anything about how Hamilton died. Having been reminded of it, I do know.

What do you mean you didn't know?
You're saying you just completely forgot this information that you previously clearly knew, yes?

Yes. The sleep deprived and stressed Bunny who made that post had not known much about the game, and just posted rather than do the research.

Bunny I'm sorry to keep pressing this, but I just want to be totally clear - do you agree and accept that right back when Hamilton died, you did know how he died? And then you forgot later? Right?

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm glad the Macca case has collapsed. I thought it too elaborate.

Macca is not quite as town as Jamie, darg and Vecna but certainly the town side of null.

Why in g-d's name is darg town?

He isn't necessarily. He was the counter-wagon to town HR and if Ghug is scum that would be some hellish bussing, but Ghug's capable of it. We're pretty sure he's Fruit Vendor but that doesn't automatically make him town.

[rdrivera2005]

Anybody interested in a Seth wagon?

I find it highly suspicious that his activity has tailed off to virtual invisibility.
I was suspicious of him anyway and have now come to the conclusion that he is a valuable scum role who has been advised to fly under the radar to survive to endgame.

##vote Seth

I was suspicious of his absence, but the hiding a good PR is another good point I hadn't thought of.

##VOTE Seth

Can Damo and Macca be so blatant as scum?

[Vecna]

what valuable scum role would that be?

FH probably.

Tiny chance of DV if they didn't recruit but somehow doubt that.

Diarist is another possibility. And there are the tracker roles but they are not so valuable.

And why would they give the valuable roles to the worst/least experienced scum member? Or recruit Seth so he couldve randomed something?

[BunnyGo]

I was thinking a bit about Maniac and who scum likely thought he was going to shoot. The initial list he gave was:

Vecna
Chaqa
Bunny
Ghug
Seth

Which got narrowed down to Chaqa and Seth. He also voted kgray and hinted Dargo could be a target (I think?)

I would have expected Maniac's shot to go to one of these three people. Mafia would likely not kill Maniac at that point if they were super-concerned about him shooting one of their own. It's a slight point in kgray's favor, as well as Seth (and mine, from other perspectives, I would think).

Curious to see Vecna, Jamie, and ghug's thoughts on this. Is it WIFOM, or did you guys think Maniac would shoot someone he never mentioned?

This is an interesting post.

The rest of your fight with kgray was not.

[BunnyGo]

Anybody interested in a Seth wagon?

I find it highly suspicious that his activity has tailed off to virtual invisibility.
I was suspicious of him anyway and have now come to the conclusion that he is a valuable scum role who has been advised to fly under the radar to survive to endgame.

##vote Seth

I was suspicious of his absence, but the hiding a good PR is another good point I hadn't thought of.

##VOTE Seth

Can Damo and Macca be so blatant as scum?

Yeah, this lays credence to the strong coaching/bad acting theory.

[BunnyGo]

What do you mean you didn't know?
You're saying you just completely forgot this information that you previously clearly knew, yes?

Yes. The sleep deprived and stressed Bunny who made that post had not known much about the game, and just posted rather than do the research.

Bunny I'm sorry to keep pressing this, but I just want to be totally clear - do you agree and accept that right back when Hamilton died, you did know how he died? And then you forgot later? Right?

YES! I understood at the time he died for posting after EON. Then later when I was posting, I'd forgotten that *he* was the one who died that way.

[damo666]

@Jamie

Assuming you are right about ghug (I'm unconvinced) how about

Seth ghug rdr Bunny

That work?

I can see that being more than 50% right.

Damo, you voted Ghug for a significant part of today. What changed your mind? Why are you now unconvinced, when earlier you were voting for Ghug?

He is less playful and seems more solve focussed hence my scumread waned. It is possible that he is scum and thought he better put in an effort to appear more scumhunting townlike, he is skilled enough to do that. I'm about 80%town 20%scum on him (rough top of the head figures).

Your 'more than 50%' kind of implies you think 3 out of those 4 are scum. Which one is the odd one out?