M70 - THE BASKIN-ROBBINS CONSPIRACY [HIDDEN]

[TheFlyingBoat]

A lot to catch up on, and I am sorry in advance if I missed any question asked of me. Please re-ask if I did. Anyways I wanted to post my reads that I have coming into this day based on old stuff and a combination of VCA at the end of Day 1 and frustration with the possibly fake cop claim. Will adjust based on the catch up I do tomorrow while I lounge around and follow my many fantasy teams.


Bonatogether

Slight town. I think Bona's contributions have gotten better over time in terms of actually taking strong stances and he does seem to be more actively engaged in discussions and offering opinions that I can sort of follow. I think they're mostly wrong and his reads aren't very good, but in the end I don't think they're bad because he's scummy, I think they're just not good. Either he's town or a god-tier scum player.

bozotheclown

Slight town. While I disliked his early support for no-kill Day 1 I appreciated him eventually coming around and more importantly I very much appreciated his defense of jasnah. Killing 2 towns in consecutive DKs is bad. Standing against it vociferously is good.


Fluminator

The immense size of Chaqa's balls to claim his cleared townie was a fellow mafia member is so large to be impossible. For that reason I think Flum has to be town. Also the fact the bot testing he was doing actually found a real issue and was motivated by the fact he realized there was an actual issue neutered some of my animosity towards what I perceived as a waste of time and a failure to hunt.

snowy801

Neutral. The guy has buddied me a lot which makes me a little worried he is trying to play me for a fool with idle flattery and the such from calling me great and my haters a bag of dicks to saying I was based and pink pilled. That being said I feel like he has posted a lout of well thought out posts, posted original thoughts, and was in favor of keeping discussions on track and away from shitposts.

TheFlyingBoat

Town. Great guy imo. 10/10 would trust

Tom Bombadil

Null. Dude must be lost in the Shire.

Vecna

Slight town. I liked him shooting down some of the dumber Oracle/JOAT suggestion wrt how to handle the jasnah/bunny miller claim. That bought some red with me. Scum seems predisposed to just letting PRs waste their time there. It's odd how much he wanted to protect worcej, but hey everyone has their town reads and he stuck to his so fair enough.

worcej

Slight scum. Didn't like his no kill position, especially disliked his kill both position which he continued to maintain, view him as generally taking anti-town positions, but the conviction and anger he has seems to often come from a town place. I did like his flavius view of Sabi even though I myself no longer quite share it. I don't like his attempt to make discussion of Bunny being the Miller again and again. I thought it was resolved and I think bringing it up generally serves just to distract town.

<snip>

me: Which stances are wrong? Specification is good for town cause then it's not just a wishy-washy 'oh i think he's making bad reads' that people can't push back on.

bozo: "Standing against it [dking town 2 days in a row] vociferously is good." Wow, what an idea! I never thought of that. What a thing that scum would never think of! What a total towntell. The rest of your reasoning isn't bad, but it's also not a towntell. Scum aren't solely making scum-benefit arguments - they mix it up. Some make almost entirely arguments that benefit town, and so this doesn't indicate that bozo is town.

<snip>

flum: you haven't played with chaqa so this is a bad argument. That's not a way to prove flum's innocence and it's kinda weird, cause I figure you know enough to not make this argument?

<snip>


snowy: I feel like this should either be scum or town, and not null. You have decently strong arguments for both, and that shouldn't exactly even out. Null is 'no read'. There is no such thing as 'equally scummy and towny'

boat: you stabbed me just last night ffs

<snip>

Bona: You had reads on me where you said I didn't post when at the time I was one of the most active posters by post count, was the #1 by words, and had been an active leader in discussions on miller/dk which were the primary 2 decisions at the time.

And while I agree on your general read for Sabi being town, your reasoning that they were posting things that made logical sense for a newbie to think made zero sense to me. Reading their posts was a ton of shitposts which are easy to make without fear if you're not materially engaging in the game at all. That being said the townslip on the scum QT was enough to make me think you were right there for the wrong reasons. You meta analysis was sparse and specious for a lot of people that made it not particularly helpful after Eden asked you to post an analysis on everyone based on your earlier meta summary (which I did appreciate)

Bozo: I was probably overly terse here and left what I thought was obvious unsaid. The fact I felt he was co-leading that march with me and a couple others is what gives me the town read. There were others who eventually agreed who I did not give the same level of credit for. And yes I know they will not make exclusively scum-benefit args, but the scum-benefit args imo are easier to make than the town-benefit ones wrt to this particular argument. Sticking your neck out there is hard and gives me town vibes. When we were first arguing it, it was not the default popular assumption it was.

Flum: I have played once with Chaqa at least once before in M56. I played pretty terribly that game because I was really busy IRL. Was also a year ago and the game ended prematurely with a mafia concession so I didn't have the time to really get a good read on Chaqa and certainly remember little of that game. But maybe I am wrong and it is possible that Chaqa would have the balls to confirm his partner as town, but I just don't view that as likely behavior when it could result in a follow up cop scan that result in two dead mafia on 1 scan. (If Flum turns up mafia then he and chaqa would both die. I suppose maybe it might make sense to try it with the godfather, but even that would carry incredible risk)

Snowy: I said neutral, not null. I drew a dissection between the two for a reason. I had scum leans and town leans that kind of balanced out, but day 2 behavior has given the scum leans slightly more credence as the "I don't like to take stances at the beginning of the day" line seemed kinda sus.

[bozotheclown]

I am not used to Bozo not giving any opinions on stuff.
He listed all the damo posts and didn't even give his opinion on them other than both points of view are valid.

Gun to your head, what do you think Bozo? Was Damo the cop?

I would say damo more likely was the cop, about 60/40.

[snowy801]

Snowy: I said neutral, not null. I drew a dissection between the two for a reason. I had scum leans and town leans that kind of balanced out, but day 2 behavior has given the scum leans slightly more credence as the "I don't like to take stances at the beginning of the day" line seemed kinda sus.

I wish Mr. Brian from Hamilton, Ontario were here so he could tell you the number of times I told him (and everybody else) to treat every day as a new day

[Jamiet99uk]

No, I found your engagement in the thread to be superficial and easily within your mafia range, so I called it out. I doubt anybody follows. I am highly amused by your reaction though, and I suspect it will enable others to read you much more easily

Fake.

You don't believe a word of that. You're too intelligent to form such a stupid conclusion if you actually read my posts.

Anyway to give you a more serious response, while I'm flattered by your assessment of me, the truth is that I am neither particularly intelligent nor immune to forming stupid conclusions, if indeed my conclusion here is wrong (which is still far from certain). This wouldn't be the first stupid conclusion I have formed, if it indeed stupid, nor will it be the last. If your entire premise is that me coming to a stupid conclusion = I'm mafia, then there are many, many games of me being stupid as town to contradict it.

All that said, I maintain that your contributions are within your mafia range, and it is only your more recent sign of life here that points me toward you being town.

So.

Your conclusion appears to be that you do not have the courage of your convictions. You are unwilling to go one-on-one with me. You accept your claim against me is weak.

Good.

[TheFlyingBoat]

Oops @bona forgot to respond to this line:

boat: you stabbed me just last night ffs

[ghug]

Kgray is specifically teenage ghug. Don't undersell the nuance there.

Teenaged ghug was probably an edgy libertarian

LMAO
Teenage ghug apparently looked up to me, and I was an edgy libertarian, so the shoe fits

Again, only as a Diplomacy player.

[Fluminator]

Wonder if PE vs. Jamiet is scum theatre

[President Eden]

Wonder if PE vs. Jamiet is scum theatre

I hate it here

[Fluminator]

Bozo what do you think of the no flip twist?

[snowy801]

Since everyone is acting like this is endgame (side effect of no flip? People doing it seems towny enough) let me explain to you what I think is happening.

1) I think Jasnah was town. I admit it is reasonably possible that she was not, but a) it makes no fucking sense and b) I looked at who wanted her out [more on this later]

2) Chaqa is almost certainly scum. Honestly didn't particularly scum read him on day 1, but his subsequent actions and responses make it very blatant that he is not. It is tremendously difficult for me to see how you observe both the manner in which he claimed, unclaimed and reclaimed (yes, sure a real cop would also do that as wifom), as well as the conversation he and Eden held on the matter of crumbs (he meant to do his 7th post, but forgot, then got lucky that Flum posted and did it on page 7 instead? I was hoping to parse some reactions to this idiocy for some clear tells but nobody ever bites on the good shit). There's not a universe where that is a genuine action.

More than anything, the chance that we arbitrarily top wagon'd the cop D1 vs. we got lucky on a scum catch who was then forced to claim to save himself, as there is no cost for scum to do so (except the wasted RBs I guess, but unless you're going to hook/kill early RBs just create pseudo-clears anyway). I wish damo were here to do the math for me here but honestly it is not worth considering.

3) damo is very likely not the cop. I thought he might be, but upon reflection he hid his doctoriness quite well in item-madness so why would he not be so capable here? He strikes me as a VT taking one for the team by faking crumbs as VT, which is appreciated especially as that's something I'd never do. I was still kind of on the fence, but subsequent discussion on the matter sold me on the subject - 99% VT.

Therefore another cop exists, and so there is no urgency to vote out Chaqa. I have been considering discussing appropriate timings for outing but it seems unnecessary at this time.

4) Appropos of nothing, worcej is so very obviously scum. I don't know what kgray and bona are smoking.

5) Flum I'm less sure about. I have contemplated whether it's just the ego speaking, but it did not escape my notice that EoD1 is a time of great chaos when Chaqa claimed, and I was stroking the fire to renew his wagon. Ordinarily one might conclude that a fake claiming cop directs their target to town to pocket/just be true, but in the world of no-flip I am not so certain.

That all said, I'm not quite so sold on Flum so I could just be wrong. Hard to read, our Fluminator, and he's not much of a biter it seems.

6) Doom, Eden, Vecna, TFB, Sabi, kgray, Jamiet, ghug, bona all very clearly town, so our candidate pool is quite small indeed.

Durga and rdrivera are probably town too, and who knows what people are smoking about lfischl, but assuming there's merit it just leaves mostly bozo, Tom, Fluminator, worcej, Chaqa to draw from (+/- my misreading people, which I imagine is possible).

I'd guess if I misread someone it'd be TFB/ghug but I don't think so

The problem then is that the scum ratio in this game is quite low already, and we've written off a goodly number of them from the voting pool already (1-2), so we've got people grasping at shadows and endlessly clashing TvT based on ego and rampant suspicion.

The chain of logic is inexorable. I imagine I'll have to expand on 2) Chaqa is scum quite a number of times. I know most of you aren't all that mathematically minded but the evidence is multifaceted and I invite you all to revisit it thoroughly. It's pretty obvious.

If you take away nothing else from this I'd say stop getting into random TvT battles because you don't like each other. Hey

[Jamiet99uk]

Wonder if PE vs. Jamiet is scum theatre

I promise it isn't.

Who do you think is faking?

I says it'd clearly PE.

Vote one of us, go on

[Bonatogether]

me: Which stances are wrong? Specification is good for town cause then it's not just a wishy-washy 'oh i think he's making bad reads' that people can't push back on.

bozo: "Standing against it [dking town 2 days in a row] vociferously is good." Wow, what an idea! I never thought of that. What a thing that scum would never think of! What a total towntell. The rest of your reasoning isn't bad, but it's also not a towntell. Scum aren't solely making scum-benefit arguments - they mix it up. Some make almost entirely arguments that benefit town, and so this doesn't indicate that bozo is town.

<snip>

flum: you haven't played with chaqa so this is a bad argument. That's not a way to prove flum's innocence and it's kinda weird, cause I figure you know enough to not make this argument?

<snip>


snowy: I feel like this should either be scum or town, and not null. You have decently strong arguments for both, and that shouldn't exactly even out. Null is 'no read'. There is no such thing as 'equally scummy and towny'

boat: you stabbed me just last night ffs

<snip>

Bona: You had reads on me where you said I didn't post when at the time I was one of the most active posters by post count, was the #1 by words, and had been an active leader in discussions on miller/dk which were the primary 2 decisions at the time.

And while I agree on your general read for Sabi being town, your reasoning that they were posting things that made logical sense for a newbie to think made zero sense to me. Reading their posts was a ton of shitposts which are easy to make without fear if you're not materially engaging in the game at all. That being said the townslip on the scum QT was enough to make me think you were right there for the wrong reasons. You meta analysis was sparse and specious for a lot of people that made it not particularly helpful after Eden asked you to post an analysis on everyone based on your earlier meta summary (which I did appreciate)

Bozo: I was probably overly terse here and left what I thought was obvious unsaid. The fact I felt he was co-leading that march with me and a couple others is what gives me the town read. There were others who eventually agreed who I did not give the same level of credit for. And yes I know they will not make exclusively scum-benefit args, but the scum-benefit args imo are easier to make than the town-benefit ones wrt to this particular argument. Sticking your neck out there is hard and gives me town vibes. When we were first arguing it, it was not the default popular assumption it was.

Flum: I have played once with Chaqa at least once before in M56. I played pretty terribly that game because I was really busy IRL. Was also a year ago and the game ended prematurely with a mafia concession so I didn't have the time to really get a good read on Chaqa and certainly remember little of that game. But maybe I am wrong and it is possible that Chaqa would have the balls to confirm his partner as town, but I just don't view that as likely behavior when it could result in a follow up cop scan that result in two dead mafia on 1 scan. (If Flum turns up mafia then he and chaqa would both die. I suppose maybe it might make sense to try it with the godfather, but even that would carry incredible risk)

Snowy: I said neutral, not null. I drew a dissection between the two for a reason. I had scum leans and town leans that kind of balanced out, but day 2 behavior has given the scum leans slightly more credence as the "I don't like to take stances at the beginning of the day" line seemed kinda sus.

me: I never said you hadn't posted? I said you hadn't posted anything substantial or memorable, which remains largely true.

sabi: The original meta post was never supposed to be an analysis of people's behavoir in the game. It was for sabi to have a general sense of the meta. Then, Eden asked for me to apply it, so I did. It was not an unprompted general readslist. Also, I don't have a lot of meta for some people, because I haven't played much in a while, and some people I just haven't played with more than once or twice.

flum: I played among us pretty consistently with chaqa for about 3 or 4 months, and I've also played 4 or so games with him on here. I know Chaqa's personality much better than you. I also have a proven history of being able to read him, in the 4 other games we played in together:
m62 I called him out in my last few posts, although he went on to win the game by himself
m63 I read him right as town
m65 I was on the other wagon when he got flipped (he was town)
m66 I also had him called out but scum still won that one
Whereas you were unsure (but right) about him in...m56. I trust intuition here more than I do yours. Also, flum can't turn up mafia since there's no flips here.

snowy: sure

[bozotheclown]

Looking at damo's D1, I think his strong town read of PE points to him being the cop. Obviously damo would not want to make it obvious to the mafia that he was the cop, which I think explains the things being pointed to where he does not make it obvious. However, I think the point of damo's PE crumbs as cop would be to identify his clear if he was revealed as the cop, and there is no way anyone besides PE could be interpreted as his clear. Also, his strong town read of PE, starting with his very first post, do not make much sense otherwise, unless he was trying to draw the NK (which is not something I think I have ever seen damo do).

However, I do not think Chaqa should be DKed while it is still possible to resolve the cop question with the JOAT or oracle, in case he really is the cop.

I still think it is very likely jasnah was town. Maybe she was trying to draw the DK because she was VT and did not have time to play. Maybe she was fake claiming for reactions. If she was fake claiming as mafia, I think that would be violating her requirement to try to play to her win condition.

I find those who took the opportunity of the miller CCs to try to set up DKs of jasnah and BunnyGo suspicious, specifically worcej and Jamie.

I also find Fluminator's switch from worcej to jasnah as soon as Chaqa claimed cop suspicious, because he knew worcej would be picking up Chaqa votes. However, Fluminator can only be scum with Chaqa, so if he was protecting worcej, that would mean Fluminator, Chaqa, and worcej are all scum, which is not outside the realm of possibility.

Overall, I think worcej and Jamie are our best chances at scum.

##VOTE Jamie

[Bonatogether]

Looking at damo's D1, I think his strong town read of PE points to him being the cop. Obviously damo would not want to make it obvious to the mafia that he was the cop, which I think explains the things being pointed to where he does not make it obvious. However, I think the point of damo's PE crumbs as cop would be to identify his clear if he was revealed as the cop, and there is no way anyone besides PE could be interpreted as his clear. Also, his strong town read of PE, starting with his very first post, do not make much sense otherwise, unless he was trying to draw the NK (which is not something I think I have ever seen damo do).

However, I do not think Chaqa should be DKed while it is still possible to resolve the cop question with the JOAT or oracle, in case he really is the cop.

I still think it is very likely jasnah was town. Maybe she was trying to draw the DK because she was VT and did not have time to play. Maybe she was fake claiming for reactions. If she was fake claiming as mafia, I think that would be violating her requirement to try to play to her win condition.

I find those who took the opportunity of the miller CCs to try to set up DKs of jasnah and BunnyGo suspicious, specifically worcej and Jamie.

I also find Fluminator's switch from worcej to jasnah as soon as Chaqa claimed cop suspicious, because he knew worcej would be picking up Chaqa votes. However, Fluminator can only be scum with Chaqa, so if he was protecting worcej, that would mean Fluminator, Chaqa, and worcej are all scum, which is not outside the realm of possibility.

Overall, I think worcej and Jamie are our best chances at scum.

##VOTE Jamie

What are your thoughts on my scumreading of you?

[snowy801]

Looking at damo's D1, I think his strong town read of PE points to him being the cop. Obviously damo would not want to make it obvious to the mafia that he was the cop, which I think explains the things being pointed to where he does not make it obvious. However, I think the point of damo's PE crumbs as cop would be to identify his clear if he was revealed as the cop, and there is no way anyone besides PE could be interpreted as his clear. Also, his strong town read of PE, starting with his very first post, do not make much sense otherwise, unless he was trying to draw the NK (which is not something I think I have ever seen damo do).

However, I do not think Chaqa should be DKed while it is still possible to resolve the cop question with the JOAT or oracle, in case he really is the cop.

I still think it is very likely jasnah was town. Maybe she was trying to draw the DK because she was VT and did not have time to play. Maybe she was fake claiming for reactions. If she was fake claiming as mafia, I think that would be violating her requirement to try to play to her win condition.

I find those who took the opportunity of the miller CCs to try to set up DKs of jasnah and BunnyGo suspicious, specifically worcej and Jamie.

I also find Fluminator's switch from worcej to jasnah as soon as Chaqa claimed cop suspicious, because he knew worcej would be picking up Chaqa votes. However, Fluminator can only be scum with Chaqa, so if he was protecting worcej, that would mean Fluminator, Chaqa, and worcej are all scum, which is not outside the realm of possibility.

Overall, I think worcej and Jamie are our best chances at scum.

##VOTE Jamie

ooh yikes

[snowy801]

Alright I'll now break down the sections on
1) Why Chaqa is clearly scum
2) Why Worcej is clearly scum
3) Therefore all the other people you're suspecting are probably not

[bozotheclown]

Bozo what do you think of the no flip twist?

I do not care for it personally.

[Tom Bombadil]

Will catch up tonight or tomorrow. Only so many summer(ish) weekends left - apologies for the radio silence.

[Fluminator]

To people talking about among us, there's this steam game called deceit that's free and is among us but better. Time to move on to better games.

[Bonatogether]

To people talking about among us, there's this steam game called deceit that's free and is among us but better. Time to move on to better games.

among us among us among us