You sure do like to write a lot of words, wolfu. It's pretty hard to keep everything coherent in my head.
wolfu wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:07 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 9:43 pm
rdr was sussing bo a little bit but that would be galaxy brain for an experienced scum!bo to shoot the person that he just voted for + barely had a scumread on bo
which is to say
##VOTE wolfu
I had the privilege of holding my vote and thinking yesterday, which leads to today's conclusion. I think maybe I need to think more about what rdr dying means, but I also remember when snowy AtE'd me and would like to avoid getting verbally juked again by a (presumably) good experienced scum player like wolfu.
Once again though the ghost of bozo (boghost?, ghozo?) reminds me to remind us that hammering isn't necessary but of all the days in this game this is the one I'm least worried about.
rdr was actually suspecting bo quite a bit?
i don't know that that factors in to the kill, rdr buried bbona pretty hard yesterday
but he was also one of the only people who wasn;t calling me guaranteed scum and i think it's pretty wild you think i shoot him over damo or you??
unless you believe the mafia are just that afraid of the commuter, which is guess is plausible
re: rdr what I meant by sussing was right before he was killed rdr was actively pushing bo
this was right at the end of D4
rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 9:00 pm
bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:57 pm
rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 8:51 pm
I didn't said I think you were town. I even said that I would look at you if Bona is scum (would quote it if I wasn't on phone, but it's on page,134).
And this pattern is probably true, but you also have a pattern of scumreading me when you are scum, lol.
Forgive me, you're right. You said this:
rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Wed Sep 21, 2022 9:04 pm
To be honest, Bo's posts today made me feel he is less likely to be scum.
That's a pretty declarative statement to make if only to flip back to heavily scumreading bo the moment I start questioning anything you've done or not done.
I am not heavily scumreading you, otherwise I will be voting you. And I said I was less scumreading you, so where the third or forth option on my list Bona-Damo-Bo/Ike.
Anyway, it's time.
and then end of N4:
rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 8:11 pm
bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 6:31 pm
I don't really care if you think I should be miskilled. Very few other people seem to have any issue townreading me based on several factors that they have laid out clearly, and you laid out some of those reasons yourself yesterday but forgot about them the moment that I recirculated by scum-has-a-lurker theory and voted for you. Stop playing that way.
First of all, I don't think you should be misskilled, I think you are scum.
Second, I don't think my play is unefecttive. Last game I identified both Snowy and you because the way you both tried to set me up. I also identified Bona as scum based on simple vote analysis logic, which you seem unable to understand and just kept saying "why Bona voted for a PR claimant" which is not a towny tell in any way. So, maybe you should reflect about your play if you are town.
Third, who said you are obviously town? Your only towny moment was that emotional outburst, but it can be easily done as annoyed scum too. And the fact you seem to be getting a pass worries me, because I think I might be NKed or shot tonight.
------
re: you shooting rdr over me or damo, and the fear of commuter
You've spent a lot of time talking about how we're all just fitting your behavior into a forgone scum conclusion so idk if you sincerely want me to answer this but here I go.
If you're town, you didn't shoot anyone
If you're scum, and granted you would be scum in the way that I have described and have formulated in my head, which may not be how you actually play scum nor how you think good scum would play. Disclaimer over.
If you're scum, yeah I think it's perfectly reasonable for you to kill rdr over me or damo because of damo's weird commuter claim nonsense. Which is to say I can't believe I'm saying this but, good job damo.
The worst case for you, as scum, is to try and kill one of damo or me and accidentally hit the commuter, no? It's a two vote reversal, instead of eliminating a _probable_ vote for yourself, it's still on the board and they know they lived. I feel like you're pretty smart and you would rather try to win with your brains than lose on some bad odds.
Who else you could have shot:
- sabi: (in my world) they're your miskill target, no can do
- fox/Ike/celaph: honestly I'm stumped on this one, this seems like a better target for you than rdr, because you could have both pushed your sabi case and had damo + rdr pushing a bo case, and then you've got all your cases bovered i mean bases covered
- bo: you tell me if it's bad to kill the people you're arguing with as scum, because according to you I don't know shit and I'll never find scum
---
Fuck man I'm trying to get through these posts but I just spent an hour reading everything + responding to the first one. Lightening round I guess:
- I never said you were obvious.
- I never said rdr didn't scumread bo.
- dang I didn't understand why bo said:
bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Fri Sep 23, 2022 11:29 pm
If you are just trying to keep me talking so you can keep talking yourself then give it up; I’m not going to give that kind of crap the time of day.
to you but now I sure do. There's just so much to try and address and I can tell if I miss anything somehow it's going to turn into like 10 more things that I have to address or somehow I'm just a useless biased embarrassment of a mafia player.
You want a question? Sure.
What happens if you're wrong about Sabi? I've seen zero consideration about this possibility from you despite you reminding everyone constantly to prepare for it if you're the DK.
------------
interlude:
- yay celaph, love celaph putting in effort
- sabi dang I know you're busy but saying "go read an entire other game" is just as off-putting as the other 10 times it's been done by people new to webdip. I understand the idea but it's not convincing, drop us some sparknotes
- oh look it's me
- oh look it's damo picking between sabi or wolfu
re: sabi
wolfu wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 5:03 pm
if you are going to claim there is some actual difference between the games, beyond you being more motivated to win that game against a playerlist it was going to be difficult to fool, you are going to have to spell it out for me
Yeah this is a better way of saying what I was trying to say. Hm.
wolfu wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:02 pm
also, the "this isn't my scumgame" [drop link with no explanation] argument was literally used against me by sabi in our last game together
they were on a 3rd party scumteam that game
Sabi, confirm?
--------------
and we're back
wolfu wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:27 pm
but i am town and you have given 0 reason why me casing sabi as well as bona does not come from town
It's taken you days to say something that's actually made sense to me about your defenses and it's this. You phrased it a bunch of different ways but I think I get what you're getting at now. Hm.
wolfu wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:35 pm
i think you are making an error here - that second bit about bona would be scummy REGARDLESS of sabi's alignment. it does not necessitate sabi being mafia. the lack of attempts to solve a player is an individualized scumtell
in the strictest terms bona not trying to solve sabi does NOT guarantee sabi mafia
but you have to go back and look at what he was doing in these interactions
was he trying to pocket sabi? no
was he trying to push sabi for an elimination? also no
was he starting a bunch of pointless arguments with sabi that went nowhere? yes. are those actions more likely to happen between a scum and a town, or scum and another scum? imo, it is the latter
and again you are faulting me for pointing out a connection i observed before bona had flipped, implying that making this observation can only come as part of a scum agenda rather than being
an actual read i had
Forgive me if you're already answered this. I should probably just post this and go to bed.
How would your read on sabi have changed if bona flipped town instead of scum?
wolfu wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 8:46 pm
pyxxy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 24, 2022 6:53 am
And then idk the ending of D4 just feels like scum theater:
wolfu wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 7:49 pm
yes factual summaries tend to not be wrong
my issue is not that it is false it is that i do not get the sense you are attempting to solve sabi in that post, or have ever attempted to solve sabi
Does this explain better what I find suspicious about you?
You say you're not going to hammer. Then you spend the time to lay out this case for scum!sabi, a case which _largely_ depends on bona flipping scum. After the case is hot and fresh out of the oven then suddenly it's okay to (try to) hammer. Voilá! bona flips scum and you've got sabi in your sights as the next miskill.
does every argument between scum and another player necessitate it being scumthaeter? the line of logic is absurd
i pointed out things about bona's play i found suspect and he did nothing but act petulant and snarky in response rather than trying to justify his stances
what about that conversation, to you, looks
faked rather than me being a townie who had gotten a correct read that scum chose to attack?
because in your view it seems like almost any interaction with scum is treated as theater
and again, the argument about the attempted hammer is nonsensical. i legitimately believed it was 1 vote away from hammer (this is obviously true regardless of alignment). i waited so other people would have a chance to post and so that bona would be able to come in and defend himself, because he had not posted that much that day
bona came back, and his defense was poor, and he started attacking me and suggesting i was partnered with damo. i get pissed because he starts giving me non-answers to my post. at this point, there is roughly an hour left to deadline and i am sick of arguing with someone who is being (in my view) deliberately evasive. so OF COURSE i am okay with hammering then, or at least i tried to.
you are ignoring completely the context of how much time has elapsed between me saying i was not going to hammer and me actually casting the vote. i do not think these actions are remotely inconsistent
you will quite literally NEVER catch scum using reasoning like you have here. not just below random, not just rarely, it quite simply will never work. "said they weren't hammering then tried to hammer several hours later" is not a scumtell. scum do not get caught this way.
"does every argument between scum and another player necessitate it being scumthaeter?"
Did I say that? Damn dude. You and bo argued yesterday. You and I are fucking throwing hands right now. We're not all scum! Jesus fucking christ.
Yeah bona was completely ineffective at defending against your case. Which makes you look really good, right? You nailed bona! He had no chance! Wow wolfu is such a good scumhunter, he must be town!
Like, this does nothing to change how I feel about you two! If I believe that your interactions were planned or contrived or other ingenuous, and you seem to understand that I do because you keep complaining about it, then I don't understand why you think that you pointing how "bona didn't do shit to defend himself against my *strikethrough, bus* cough, I mean _case_" is a good defense?!
Taking a breath.
Joke segment to help me calm down:
pyxxy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:50 pm
bo_sox48 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:34 pm
Regardless we need a third wagon. Letting four people determine in the first two hours of the day who we are killing today is stupid. Similarly, we should stop holding out votes out. Wolfu obviously feels strongly about Besharam and should place a vote there. I obviously feel like rdrivera is scum and should place a vote there. The mechanics of voting in this game are scaring me out of voting and I'm probably not the only one, but those mechanics are letting scum drive things and I'm more scared of that than I am of allowing a speed hammer when it really makes no sense to plan for one anyway.
##VOTE rdrivera
@bo
If rdr is scum, was he trying to get a miskill on Bona D1?
http://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g= ... rivera2005
Also I screwed up the hammer number again, it's 5 not 4, right?
Considering Ike showing up to vote to hammer a wagon would be an instant scumslip, it's really just me bo and wolfu.
So I'm going to try and follow your lead bo and
##VOTE bona
because that's where my mind is after >1 day of thinking. But I have a slow day at work today so I'll be online and reading the thread and thinking more.
You knew that I had voted for bona and that in your mind that would make you the hammer, yet in the post where I vote for bona, I point out how I messed up the hammer math and it's actually 5. You missed the "important" part
"you are ignoring completely the context of how much time has elapsed between me saying i was not going to hammer and me actually casting the vote. i do not think these actions are remotely inconsistent"
Sure. It was 3 hours. During which you missed my post about the hammer despite posting on both sides of it
https://mafia.peterlund.se/e/web/msgs?g ... d=w:316061
A hammer is still a hammer. It ends the day and finalizes the result.
I give up I can't respond to all of this tonight there's still like an entire half fucking page of this. Consider me bumrushed or blustered or whatever the term is. See y'all in the morning.