M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[TheMadMonarch]

seth24c (3) bo_sox48 damo666 dargorygel
Chaqa (3) kgray rdrivera2005 Jamiet99uk
ghug (2) BunnyGo Macca573
kgray (1) Chaqa
bo_sox48 (1) ghug

No vote, Seth & Vecna

Really interesting that none of the candidates ended up voting for the two lead candidates as requested. My sense is that town engaged much more with this process than scum did knowing that a half-day EOD gives town info that scum would sooner it didn't have.

I'd be happy to target either Chaqa or Seth. I'm happy that either one could be scum.

For the rest of this day up until EOD -2hrs, I'd like you all to choose between the following candidates.

Kgray
Bo_Sox
Dargorygel

Thanks

What is the purpose of these next candidates? So you're not taking out those first two you suggested?

I'd be happy to target either Chaqa or Seth. I'm happy that either one could be scum.

In saying that, I'd be happy to go for kgray or Bo_, my suspicion of them goes up with every passing minute.

##VOTE bo_

[TheMadMonarch]

Hi Macca

Hi!

[ghug]

Hi Macca

Hi!

What makes you suspect kgray and bo?

Assuming you still suspect me, which I believe to be the case, how do you reconcile those reads with the fact that I've been pushing bo and kgray harder than pretty much anyone?

[Jamiet99uk]

He prematurely thought he was going to be a lead wagon today and has decided to take one for the team, presumably trying to nail a useful town PR in rewenge.

You think Maniac is helping town with his little circus act?

It's well-established that Maniac is capable of terrible town play.

Why wouldn't he just make himself target a townie and not claim vengeful if he were scum?

Why are you ignoring how unlikely it is that Vengeful would be a scum role?

Jamie, you still haven't answered this question.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm just struggling to find a town motivation for his actions unless, as you imply, he's a fucking idiot.

[ghug]

It's well-established that Maniac is capable of terrible town play.

Why wouldn't he just make himself target a townie and not claim vengeful if he were scum?

Why are you ignoring how unlikely it is that Vengeful would be a scum role?

Jamie, you still haven't answered this question.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm just struggling to find a town motivation for his actions unless, as you imply, he's a fucking idiot.

Why is the play any less idiotic as scum? You think they opted not to recruit so that he could do this?

[Jamiet99uk]

Jamie, you still haven't answered this question.

I'm not ignoring it, I'm just struggling to find a town motivation for his actions unless, as you imply, he's a fucking idiot.

Why is the play any less idiotic as scum? You think they opted not to recruit so that he could do this?

I don't know what else you want me to tell you, Ghug.

I was strongly scumreading Maniac before he did this, and then when he did it, my instinct was that he was nervous scum jumping the gun, expecting to be wagoned today, and he came up with this gambit to try to eliminate some particular town PR.

You pushed me to look at the alternative and the only alternative I can see is that he's playing really badly as town, which seems to be what you're saying. This is also a reasonable probability.

What else do you want from me on this point?

[ghug]

I'm not ignoring it, I'm just struggling to find a town motivation for his actions unless, as you imply, he's a fucking idiot.

Why is the play any less idiotic as scum? You think they opted not to recruit so that he could do this?

I don't know what else you want me to tell you, Ghug.

I was strongly scumreading Maniac before he did this, and then when he did it, my instinct was that he was nervous scum jumping the gun, expecting to be wagoned today, and he came up with this gambit to try to eliminate some particular town PR.

You pushed me to look at the alternative and the only alternative I can see is that he's playing really badly as town, which seems to be what you're saying. This is also a reasonable probability.

What else do you want from me on this point?

How does this gambit help him eliminate a particular town PR?

[Jamiet99uk]

Why is the play any less idiotic as scum? You think they opted not to recruit so that he could do this?

I don't know what else you want me to tell you, Ghug.

I was strongly scumreading Maniac before he did this, and then when he did it, my instinct was that he was nervous scum jumping the gun, expecting to be wagoned today, and he came up with this gambit to try to eliminate some particular town PR.

You pushed me to look at the alternative and the only alternative I can see is that he's playing really badly as town, which seems to be what you're saying. This is also a reasonable probability.

What else do you want from me on this point?

How does this gambit help him eliminate a particular town PR?

I mean like a powerful one. His whole thing about having us pick targets from a restricted list of Maniac's choosing could be a form of PR hunting, perhaps?

[ghug]

I don't know what else you want me to tell you, Ghug.

I was strongly scumreading Maniac before he did this, and then when he did it, my instinct was that he was nervous scum jumping the gun, expecting to be wagoned today, and he came up with this gambit to try to eliminate some particular town PR.

You pushed me to look at the alternative and the only alternative I can see is that he's playing really badly as town, which seems to be what you're saying. This is also a reasonable probability.

What else do you want from me on this point?

How does this gambit help him eliminate a particular town PR?

I mean like a powerful one. His whole thing about having us pick targets from a restricted list of Maniac's choosing could be a form of PR hunting, perhaps?

How could it be PR hunting? I'm just not getting the thought here.

[Jamiet99uk]

How could it be PR hunting? I'm just not getting the thought here.

Ok because first of all it's a barometer of who the other town don't want to kill (so at least that helps scum!maniac and his team isolate people who will be difficult to mis-daykill), and second of all, if we get to the point where Maniac is about to lock in his venge-kill, the person he's likely to select could feel compelled to claim, to stop him from doing so? Perhaps?

[Jamiet99uk]

@Ghug: You're questioning me as if you think I know what Maniac is doing. I don't. I'm speculating. I'm guessing. This is a guessing game. I'm doing my best to articulate my genuine thoughts. Ok?

Also, I have asked Maniac to give more of an explanation as to why he thinks this is useful for town. Shall we see what answer he is able to provide?

I know I'm here right now and Maniac apparently isn't, but it feels like you're interrogating me over Maniac's play when in fact I think we're both in broad agreement that what he's doing is anti-town however you look at it. No?

[TheMadMonarch]

Hi Macca

Hi!

What makes you suspect kgray and bo?

Assuming you still suspect me, which I believe to be the case, how do you reconcile those reads with the fact that I've been pushing bo and kgray harder than pretty much anyone?

I was sus of both of them already, but kgray has recently started trying to defend him, in ways I don't perceive to be very strong.

How does that impact my perception of you? You're certainly less scummy, but not null yet.

[Chaqa]

If Maniac is scum, daykilling him is a 1:1 town to scum trade. We take that any day.

If Maniac is town, daykilling him could be two dead townies for no dead scum. That would essentially ruin town's chances of winning.

Town Maniac wouldn't do a risky play like this, would he?

How does it make any sense as scum?

Ah, it probably doesn't, actually.

So I really hope Maniac is reaction testing us and isn't planning on having us daykill him because I think it's too risky

[ghug]

@Ghug: You're questioning me as if you think I know what Maniac is doing. I don't. I'm speculating. I'm guessing. This is a guessing game. I'm doing my best to articulate my genuine thoughts. Ok?

Also, I have asked Maniac to give more of an explanation as to why he thinks this is useful for town. Shall we see what answer he is able to provide?

I know I'm here right now and Maniac apparently isn't, but it feels like you're interrogating me over Maniac's play when in fact I think we're both in broad agreement that what he's doing is anti-town however you look at it. No?

You're offering a theory on why he's doing what he's doing, and the theory doesn't make sense, so I'm questioning it.

[Jamiet99uk]

@Ghug: You're questioning me as if you think I know what Maniac is doing. I don't. I'm speculating. I'm guessing. This is a guessing game. I'm doing my best to articulate my genuine thoughts. Ok?

Also, I have asked Maniac to give more of an explanation as to why he thinks this is useful for town. Shall we see what answer he is able to provide?

I know I'm here right now and Maniac apparently isn't, but it feels like you're interrogating me over Maniac's play when in fact I think we're both in broad agreement that what he's doing is anti-town however you look at it. No?

You're offering a theory on why he's doing what he's doing, and the theory doesn't make sense, so I'm questioning it.

Ok well I have now answered your questions and I have speculated about what Maniac is doing from both a town and a scum perspective.

Satisfied?

[kgray]

Hi!

What makes you suspect kgray and bo?

Assuming you still suspect me, which I believe to be the case, how do you reconcile those reads with the fact that I've been pushing bo and kgray harder than pretty much anyone?

I was sus of both of them already, but kgray has recently started trying to defend him, in ways I don't perceive to be very strong.

How does that impact my perception of you? You're certainly less scummy, but not null yet.

I am not defending bo... I'm scumleaning him.

[TheMadMonarch]

What makes you suspect kgray and bo?

Assuming you still suspect me, which I believe to be the case, how do you reconcile those reads with the fact that I've been pushing bo and kgray harder than pretty much anyone?

I was sus of both of them already, but kgray has recently started trying to defend him, in ways I don't perceive to be very strong.

How does that impact my perception of you? You're certainly less scummy, but not null yet.

I am not defending bo... I'm scumleaning him.

That is not the meaning I picked up.

[kgray]

I was sus of both of them already, but kgray has recently started trying to defend him, in ways I don't perceive to be very strong.

How does that impact my perception of you? You're certainly less scummy, but not null yet.

I am not defending bo... I'm scumleaning him.

That is not the meaning I picked up.

Are you referring to when I mentioned that he'd questioned seth in a way that makes me think he scumreads him?

If yes, that is because ghug was implying that bo's vote for seth came out of nowhere, which is not the case.

Are you referring to when I told darg I though bo might be lecturing in his response to teacon?

If yes, then I was honestly answering darg's question.

[TheMadMonarch]

I am not defending bo... I'm scumleaning him.

That is not the meaning I picked up.

Are you referring to when I mentioned that he'd questioned seth in a way that makes me think he scumreads him?

If yes, that is because ghug was implying that bo's vote for seth came out of nowhere, which is not the case.

Are you referring to when I told darg I though bo might be lecturing in his response to teacon?

If yes, then I was honestly answering darg's question.

A look back, and it appears that I misread the interaction. I still think you're scum though.

[BunnyGo]

Hi, I'm back. I see Maniac did some claiming. I'll not be throwing stones at his decision, as I was a similarly <adjective redacted> last game with my claim.

I'm leaning town!Maniac on this (scum would wait longer I think, but I don't know maniac well. Also it was somewhat clear he'd be pushed again today...I dunno, maybe it's a way to get to KiLo as scum...it'd be an interesting strategy planned early, but I don't think I or anyone else here would have the stones for it--unless he was the recruit...but that doesn't seem like anyone's top choice of recruit--no offense @maniac), and I'm starting to reconsider my EOD analysis pointing at dargo (hi dargo, glad you well), Maniac, Chaq, and Vecna.

If dargo is town then scum didn't need to jump there. The more likely place might be that ANY of the counterwagons to HR were scum (if none of them were scum during the day, then none of the analysis is worth anything?). Maybe it's the people adamantly on HR that whole time despite many people trying to coalesce around a not-HR wagon.

This would be Jamie and Seth.

I have previously townread Jamie, but maybe I need a closer look.

I have scum leaned Seth before. And this makes me definitely want another look.

Anyways @Maniac: Seth is my choice for your short deadline. Do please count ballots that are postmarked early enough but arrive late...it is a pandemic.


I'll try to catch up more thoroughly now, but honestly I'm tired and it's been a long day.

Also, I don't know why I'm listed as voting ghug, I don't want to vote him (and don't think I ever intended to). And why are people voting bo? If it's between bo and seth I'll ##vote seth.

I'll be around a bit now, and I have some childcare tomorrow so will try to poke my head in during work.