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BunnyGo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:53 pm

What happens if tree stump is vanilla-ized?

If lover is treestumped, are all lovers tree stumps?

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:33 pm

Alien Bloodsucker
You are the ALIEN BLOODSUCKER. Each day you must vote for a suspect. ONCE per game, at night, you may target a player. If your visit is successful, your target will be turned into a Tree Stump from the start of day onwards, losing their ability to vote, but retaining the ability to post in the thread. Your target will remain aligned to the faction they were aligned to prior to becoming a tree stump. If they had access to a QT, they will lose the ability to post in that QT but will still be able to read what is posted there. If your target is a Lover or an Enabler, being turned into a Tree Stump counts as dying, in terms of the impact on players to whom they are linked.

e.m.c^42 wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:56 pm

BunnyGo wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:53 pm

What happens if tree stump is vanilla-ized?

If lover is treestumped, are all lovers tree stumps?

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:33 pm

Alien Bloodsucker
You are the ALIEN BLOODSUCKER. Each day you must vote for a suspect. ONCE per game, at night, you may target a player. If your visit is successful, your target will be turned into a Tree Stump from the start of day onwards, losing their ability to vote, but retaining the ability to post in the thread. Your target will remain aligned to the faction they were aligned to prior to becoming a tree stump. If they had access to a QT, they will lose the ability to post in that QT but will still be able to read what is posted there. If your target is a Lover or an Enabler, being turned into a Tree Stump counts as dying, in terms of the impact on players to whom they are linked.

EMC has noticed that I already answered Bunny's second question here. Thanks EMC.

The answer to the first part of Bunny's question is that a tree stump is essentially a dead person that is still allowed to post. It is not possible to reduce their abilities further.

This seems like a standard mafia thing I should know, but:
If the person carrying out the mafia kill is RBed, is the kill stopped?

Secondly,
This information is probably buried in there somewhere, but I can't find it. What's happening with QT's and time? Maf Daychat? etc.

Macca573 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:09 am

This seems like a standard mafia thing I should know, but:
If the person carrying out the mafia kill is RBed, is the kill stopped?

Secondly,
This information is probably buried in there somewhere, but I can't find it. What's happening with QT's and time? Maf Daychat? etc.

Mafia QT is nightchat. One mafia roles have delayed access.

I'd have to doublecheck the other QTs about access.

Macca573 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:09 am

This seems like a standard mafia thing I should know, but:
If the person carrying out the mafia kill is RBed, is the kill stopped?

Secondly,
This information is probably buried in there somewhere, but I can't find it. What's happening with QT's and time? Maf Daychat? etc.

The Mafia kill can be roleblocked, yes.

The Mason and Lover QTs are open all the time. The Mafia and Alien QTs allow chat at night only.

Any of the Seattle group here get a vaccine recently?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/01/30/worl ... ccine.html

@Bunny considering you have obviously gone through the roles in fine detail and I haven't could you kindly answer the following before card PMs are sent.

Is any role so weak it would be dominated in any pairing so logical players would discard making it virtually certain to be absent from game?

What are the set of roles (if any) that can be considered unlikely to be chosen unless paired together.

Also the mirror questions :

Is there a role virtually guaranteed to be present?
Which roles are highly likely to be present?

damo666 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:52 am

@Bunny considering you have obviously gone through the roles in fine detail and I haven't could you kindly answer the following before card PMs are sent.

Is any role so weak it would be dominated in any pairing so logical players would discard making it virtually certain to be absent from game?

What are the set of roles (if any) that can be considered unlikely to be chosen unless paired together.

Also the mirror questions :

Is there a role virtually guaranteed to be present?
Which roles are highly likely to be present?

An excellent set of questions...it'll take me a bit to draft a response.

My thoughts on role's power/weaknesses and whether I'd pick them:
score from -10 (never never never) to 10 (WAAY overpowered). Any score with absolute value greater than 5 is probably broken somehow.

VT(0) -- sure, why not. The real game is a VT game. You're the real hero.

Bulletproof Townie (6) -- What stops you? Oh man...You hardclaim if ever pushed. Someone investigates you and sees not an alien? Not a Mafia? Only weakness is Daykill and Vanilla-izing. Even SK can't get you? Why not just hardclaim in the first day? Except for a Vanilla-izer, I don't see this role's weakness.

Clairvoyant(1) -- sure, why not. It's a VT that gets 1 bit of extra information.

Conspiracy Theorist(2) -- investigative, gives false scans. Loving it.

Cop(3) -- Like a Conspiracy Theorist without giving off a fake scan to others.

Coroner(1) -- I mean...OK, you get to slowly learn the roles in the game. VT plus something.

Doctor(2) -- It's a doctor. Can it stop a bloodsucker? With 3 kills a night, this seems nice.

Enabler(0) -- It's a VT that's told a role is in the game. Then slot machines a nerf on the role. Basically every other role is randomly worse with you in the game.

Hider(1) -- You get to live a bit, or maybe not, but you get to throw off the tracker role results? Role madness, but not broken.

Innocent Child(2) -- I needs this. It's a VT+ But at least you aren't immune.

JOAT(2) -- Sure, why not?

Jailkeeper(2/3) -- Depending on some rules this could be broken: can you jail yourself? Can you jail same person every night? If the answer is yes/yes then bump this to a 6.

Loud Doctor(2) -- Sure, why not. More chaos.

Loud Voyeur(1) -- You don't see roles, you don't see player names, you just see actions. Cool, a VT plus.

Lover(0) -- QT is a fun game within a game. Do you say your name? Change your writing style? If you figure out your secret tryst is with an alien, do you ask them to vanillaize you? Seems like more random high variance roles. But the game within a game could be fun if that's your speed.

Macho Cop (2) -- Can the jailor protect Macho cop? This is fine.

Mason (3) -- 3 mutual townclears is pretty strong. AND an all the time QT? Loving it. It's not mechanically broken. But it's really really strong for town. If it were guaranteed to have all 3 Masons in play, I'd rate this a 4 or 5. It has few counters.

Commuter (1) -- VT plus.

One-shot Governor (2) -- VT plus you get to mess with the rest of the game. Your secret townlean is safe! And you get the results of a day without a miskill (or did you just save a scum?!) Seems harmless enough.

Gun-owner(-1) -- More gambling. Will you be visited by one of the many town or alien or scum roles? Who knows! After 1-2 nights you're a VT and probably killed a town PR.

Parrot(5) -- VT plus! It harms almost none of the town roles (jailor! doctor! investigative!) but has a big big harm on the enemies (SK...DEAD!, Vanilla-izer...NERFED! Any malicious mafia or alien...DEAD?)

Tentacled Townie(0) -- Sure...why not.

Vanilla Cop (1) -- I almost gave this a 0. I mean...I know the results of most of your scans already...

Vengeful Townie(0) -- sure, why not.

None of those looked sooo weak as to be discarded. *I* probably wouldn't choose a lover, but others might.

Parrot and Bulletproof looked OP to me. I expect anyone to choose those if offered.

The rest are style choices i think? If offered any of them vs VT, I'd take them...

Mafia Hider(-2) -- I mean...OK? Maybe? It's hard enough hiding as a goon, now I need to not guess whom the SK is targeting?

Mafia Doctor(1) -- Better than a goon!

Mafia Godfather(1) -- This role is so likely to be chosen that maybe all the cop roles need to be discounted.

Mafia goon (0) -- sure

Loud Role Cop (0) -- I'd just play it as a goon. Why do you need to know the roles? Why let people know you visited. Not the way to make it to endgame.

Mafia Lover(-6) -- Not a good way to win. What do you get? Dead. What do you learn? Nothing. What might you give up in QT? A lot...

Mafia Governor(1) -- Goon plus!

Roleblocker(2) -- sure...and you're guaranteed to hit a power.

Strongman(2) -- sure, you're the only antidote to a bulletproof!

Tracker(1) -- goon plus.

Underdog(2) -- why? Why not?!


Overall, I think the mafia roles are unlikely to be picked if paired against a good PR. I'd probably choose VT over them as I think town is ahead and play to my wincon. Part of why I think gunowner shouldn't be picked. Town is ahead...so don't roll the dice.

Here's my thought while working through this: why choose mafia at all? The aliens can hunt you, the town can hunt you, the SK can hunt you...and you get to sit there and take it?

I'm having the same thought reading through the aliens, but at least their roles are amusing.

The aliens seem to be the OP mafia, just with no faction kill.

Prober (0) -- can find mafia. But not SK?

Vanilla-izer (0) -- Way to be the buzzkill this game. You are everyone's kryptonite. Don't like someone? VANILLA!!

Bloodsucker (0) -- Is this the faction's 1 kill?

Sympathizer (1) -- This is what I choose instead of any mafia role. Probably choose town or SK ahead of this.

Bulletproof lover (0)-- Again...what do you learn? I dunno. But at least you're bulletproof. Might be good if nobody else is a lover.

Psychotrooper (1) - It's funny. It's trolling. But it's not really useful. Everyone will figure it out quickly.

Intercessor(1) - It's funny. It's trolling. But you reveal your existence and hardclear someone as not-alien.

Redirector(0) - It's funny. It's trolling. you're now vanilla.

I guess if given the choice, I'm choosing:

Town role (almost any) > SK > Alien > Mafia.

The alien roles are funny, and troll well, but can't whittle the town. So they have to win by pure manipulation. Possible, yes.

The mafia just have no roles I really like. But I could be wrong.

The town have so many strong roles. The only question is whether they step on toes.

Only Parrot and Bulletproof seemed to be OP to me.

Almost everyone else was no worse than vanilla.

damo666 wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 31, 2021 10:52 am

@Bunny considering you have obviously gone through the roles in fine detail and I haven't could you kindly answer the following before card PMs are sent.

Is any role so weak it would be dominated in any pairing so logical players would discard making it virtually certain to be absent from game?

What are the set of roles (if any) that can be considered unlikely to be chosen unless paired together.

Also the mirror questions :

Is there a role virtually guaranteed to be present?
Which roles are highly likely to be present?

Gunowner is weak in the sense that it is random when town is ahead. I might pick being mafia instead of that, not sure.

Mafia Lover is pretty weak. You get dead for nothing. You're a goon but worse. Nobody will pick this.

The rest are all at least as good as vanilla of their faction (I think).

I *will* pick Bulletproof/Parrot/Mason if given the chance. Those are OP.

Knowing this group...there *will* be aliens chosen, because this group loves to troll. And that's what the aliens do.

If the clairvoyant learns there's only 3 factions either:

1) The 1/3 chance nobody was offered SK happened
2) Nobody chose mafia

Hi jasnah. Any thoughts? You're probably better than I am at this sort of analysis.

I'll provide a few clarifications if I can. Bunny isn't directing questions at me but is asking some questions, so...

The JAILKEEPER may not jail themselves, nor may they jail the same target on consecutive nights. I will add this information to the Jailkeeper PM.

To clarify, does the tree stump need to be day killed for it to be considered dead? Or is it just a ghost that can post?

"Macho Cop (2) -- Can the jailor protect Macho cop? This is fine."

Yes, the Macho Cop can be jailed. They cannot investigate if they are in jail, of course.

BobMcBob wrote: ↑

Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:13 pm

To clarify, does the tree stump need to be day killed for it to be considered dead? Or is it just a ghost that can post?

It is effectively a ghost that can post. It is "dead" for all relevant purposes other than being able to talk.