Re: Mafia 57 Matrix
Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:53 pm
So you guys don't think *any* scum were on lone wagons at end of D1? Has meta changed that much?
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We all know that too thoHamilton Brian wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:47 pmDamo explicitly revealing something they know but we don't? Admitting they're not VT? I know I'm not explaining my thinking well nor am I successfully connecting dots. I'm still having a hard time understanding the wagon on Demon that Damo started and WHY that kill was necessary.
If it didn't cause any red flags for anyone else then I'll leave it for now.
I was unaware of that meta. Is it a recent meta?goldfinger0303 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:53 pmSo you guys don't think *any* scum were on lone wagons at end of D1? Has meta changed that much?
I haven't exactly played recently...BunnyGo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:59 pmI was unaware of that meta. Is it a recent meta?goldfinger0303 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:53 pmSo you guys don't think *any* scum were on lone wagons at end of D1? Has meta changed that much?
Also he wasn't alone on the wagon when he last checked in (if I'm getting the timing correct), Damo was with him voting on bozo.goldfinger0303 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:53 pmSo you guys don't think *any* scum were on lone wagons at end of D1? Has meta changed that much?
First, you're saying both that and that it's because he's lurking. Is it the same thing in your mind? There are certainly others lurking.goldfinger0303 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:53 pmSo you guys don't think *any* scum were on lone wagons at end of D1? Has meta changed that much?
Ok, so Bismarck is somehow making a post that is ignorant of scum's ability to know who they RBd. He's saying "worcej lying may have fooled them to draw a NK." But he's also subtly suggesting that he knew that worcej was actually telling the truth.goldfinger0303 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:02 pmAlso, trying to wrap my head around Bunny's Bismark post.
Bunny's question is - why would Bismark want us to think worcej was faking RB? Bismark from my understanding is not completely new, so should know the convention around here.
A) If Bismark is town - I see no reason why. RB claims are partial townclears.
B) If Bismark is scum - scum know who they RB'd and everyone knows if it is successful or not. RBs serve as virus-hunting for scum. So if we ever see 1 kill at night it's either because 1) Scum RB hit the virus, 2) Scum NK hit the virus or 3) Virus withheld a kill. Denying town the benefit of a partial townclear is good way for scum to mitigate the risks of their strategy and sow doubt into the towniness of anyone who claims into the future.
I will also note since we're talking about it that nobody claimed RB last night. Surely they wouldn't have RB'd worcej again.
The rest of the members are me and Bismarck. I know I am town and Bismarck just joined when the wagon was already at 3 and didn't talk much about Damo. It could be an opportunistic scum, but he didn't push the wagon so your logic about scum pushing Damo doesn't stand. I know I have a unique POV, but I don't understand why you can't acknowledge this.BunnyGo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:11 pm"until now half of it flipped town" is not like you. The fact that the town members on the wagon have flipped says little to nothing about the rest of the members.rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:00 pmWhat you mean with this? Two on the wagon flipped town. I know I am town. Bozo voted for Damo and was town. It only left Bismarck I think and he joined in the end. I am completely sure Damo wagon was totally town driven and you are pushing a narrative that doesn't make sense. Smart scum play was not get involved and let town push Damo lynch to get either a myslynch or a claim and not look bad and it's exactly what I think they did.
Now, explain me why you think scum me and/or scum Bismarck drove that wagon?
You may be right that smart scum play is to stay away. But isn't it also smart scum play to push a non-VT to the masses? Is it possible to push that WITHOUT also joining the wagon?
I can acknowledge your unique POV. But the statement "The others flipped town, so clearly scum weren't on the wagon" was not your strongest moment.rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:24 pmThe rest of the members are me and Bismarck. I know I am town and Bismarck just joined when the wagon was already at 3 and didn't talk much about Damo. It could be an opportunistic scum, but he didn't push the wagon so your logic about scum pushing Damo doesn't stand. I know I have a unique POV, but I don't understand why you can't acknowledge this.BunnyGo wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:11 pm"until now half of it flipped town" is not like you. The fact that the town members on the wagon have flipped says little to nothing about the rest of the members.rdrivera2005 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 2:00 pm
What you mean with this? Two on the wagon flipped town. I know I am town. Bozo voted for Damo and was town. It only left Bismarck I think and he joined in the end. I am completely sure Damo wagon was totally town driven and you are pushing a narrative that doesn't make sense. Smart scum play was not get involved and let town push Damo lynch to get either a myslynch or a claim and not look bad and it's exactly what I think they did.
Now, explain me why you think scum me and/or scum Bismarck drove that wagon?
You may be right that smart scum play is to stay away. But isn't it also smart scum play to push a non-VT to the masses? Is it possible to push that WITHOUT also joining the wagon?
First, I understand they're different. It's an additive thing.ghug wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:03 pmFirst, you're saying both that and that it's because he's lurking. Is it the same thing in your mind? There are certainly others lurking.goldfinger0303 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:53 pmSo you guys don't think *any* scum were on lone wagons at end of D1? Has meta changed that much?
Second, yes, it can be scummy to vote alone on a non-candidate, but it's not a hard and fast rule that it means one is scum, nor that there has to be scum doing so. Assuming that the odds of there being a lone-voting scum don't decrease when we narrow the pool of lone-voting scum is fallacious.
goldfinger0303 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:51 pmFirst, I understand they're different. It's an additive thing.ghug wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:03 pmFirst, you're saying both that and that it's because he's lurking. Is it the same thing in your mind? There are certainly others lurking.goldfinger0303 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 4:53 pmSo you guys don't think *any* scum were on lone wagons at end of D1? Has meta changed that much?
Second, yes, it can be scummy to vote alone on a non-candidate, but it's not a hard and fast rule that it means one is scum, nor that there has to be scum doing so. Assuming that the odds of there being a lone-voting scum don't decrease when we narrow the pool of lone-voting scum is fallacious.
Second, I'm aware its not a hard and fast rule, but there's usually at least one, right? I'm looking back through other games to see.So more often than not, there's a lone wagon with scum on it
- M21 doesn't quite count because the gentle reminder target was the one on a dead wagon
- M22 had teacon on a dead wagon
- M23 had Moscowfleet on a lone wagon
- M24 had peterlund on a lone wagon
- M25 rdrivera on a lone wagon
- M26 Deathllama was on a dead wagon
- M27 xorxes and Jamiet both on lone wagons.
What do you mean "top 2 wagons". Near as I can see there are two wagons tied for second.damo666 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:49 pmI think we should daykill a D1 Flash voter.
The chances of the top 2 wagons (both town) have collectively 9 town voters is pretty minimal imo. There are 6 left alive. The fact that I am alive persuades me to concentrate on the Flash voters rather than rdr and Bismarck.
I urge you to follow suit.
Because there is legitimately a few things within this scenario that fly over my head; it takes quite a bit of effort. Think about it like teaching. Before independent mastery of a skill, there has to be modeled, shared, and guided instruction to help build the skill. I'm in the modeled and guided phase.
Well myself and emc went from summit to flash, which we know was town to town.damo666 wrote: ↑Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:49 pmI think we should daykill a D1 Flash voter.
The chances of the top 2 wagons (both town) have collectively 9 town voters is pretty minimal imo. There are 6 left alive. The fact that I am alive persuades me to concentrate on the Flash voters rather than rdr and Bismarck.
I urge you to follow suit.