Mafia XXXIV Game Thread - Who Framed Roger Rabbit?

[Tom Bombadil]

@brain:

I think you analysis is faulty because it supposes Mean is scum (if I am following it correctly). I tend to not read too much into who flipped scum list as townreads and scumreads truthfully. That being said, I townread Balki and he isn't likely to end up in my "should lynch" list.

[thamrick]

Can you both offer an opinion on my analysis of rj and jamie soft clearing balki?

Can you point me to where their reads are? If not, I'll look at finding them. I just remember that RJ didn't have Balki or Mean listed in his full reads list.

[yavuzovic]

My analysis of both RJ and Jamie ISO puts scumteam at

{Ezio-yavuz--thamrick-MLQ}

Start with me!
That would proves this claim is wrong.

Are you asking to be cop scanned?

Lynch me! That would prove what am I exactly

[brainbomb]

Go back to like the first 8 pages.

Rcmjf comes in calling mean TOWNLEADER for voting balki and wanting to shoot me.

Jamie lists mean as town in his reads.

This lends credence to MeanLaqueefas voice. This is an effort to boost tye sincerity of balki pressure

[thamrick]

Go back to like the first 8 pages.

Rcmjf comes in calling mean TOWNLEADER for voting balki and wanting to shoot me.

Jamie lists mean as town in his reads.

This lends credence to MeanLaqueefas voice. This is an effort to boost tye sincerity of balki pressure

This was before the real bulk of the Balki/Mean exchange. Hard for me to draw a strong conclusion from it. Is there anything after that?

[brainbomb]

At the time mean is voting balki and wants to shoot me.

I asked why would two scum townread someone pushing their scumbuddy?

This isnt proof mean is scum.

Its arguing balki is softcleared.


Thamrick.

As soon as a flip goes down of scum.

Rereaf

[brainbomb]

Explain the psychology why two scum would townread someone voting scum!balki.

Explain it

[brainbomb]

Funny how neither of them have even reread or seem to care

[DemonRHK]

@Fox:

1:

Replying to Fox's points, P56

-On lurkers: I've said it before, but the gist is while I'm on board with lynching lurkers (reedeer is sticking out to me in this respect), I believe the push you made was middle of D1, against two players I respect enough to give benefit of the doubt for. I've played with Vash and bo enough to know the both of them are capable of coming in D2 cold and contributing. In addition, your point is rendered much less effective since your chastising me for not joining the wagon the scum was on.

I made this post in response to you last time you brought this point up. the problem is, Vash didn't really come in to my satisfaction, so I voted him after bozo answered questions to my satisfaction. I was still in my mindset of ignoring Rj to try to break my tunneling I'd been doing on him, so I voted Vash, hoping he would actually contribute more than 10 words at a time, but he never did.

2:

Here's my biggest defense:

In what fucking universe do I bus Jamie and not Rj?

I voted Vash for reasons pointed out above, and went to Tom (A vote I had D1 as well, he's been scummy from my point of view), then went back to Vash, because of shift in Maniac's lynch list. Rj never popped up on that list until close to EoD, and by that time I was settled in on Vash, and to be completely honest with you, even once Rj was added, I failed to properly process it and didn't switch. My mind was looking ahead to other things I had to do last night, and I fucked up. That's not a great explanation, but it's the truth.

[brainbomb]

From the maf QT.

Tom: thamrick lets do some dinner theatre in the main thread. Lets distance bro

Thammykins: yea bro. Lets fire off a bunch of softball accusations at each other and that way if either of us gets shot nobody will suspect us.

Tom: fuck ya. Oh shit brain is tryna clear balki

DemonRHK: yea lemme swoop in and make it look like im mad!

Ezio: what should I do?

Tom: Nothin. Yer good at doin nothing cuz theres like ten bad town

[Balki Bartokomous]

@brainbomb, knock it off. I'm hardly clear. I just tried to lynch Vashta over RJ.

@Town,

Folks who have time to dedicate to this game tonight, please don't spend your time arguing with brainbomb. Go to the vote data! We've lynched two effing scumbuckets in two days. That is really bad for scum, and guaranteed they were trying to prevent it. That's how we find the last three scum.

It's not necessarily obvious. It doesn't mean they were hard-defending RJ or hard-defending Jamiet, or coming out with cases against Vashta, ND, and Balki. But they were likely doing subtle things that they believed (1) would result in their teammates surviving, and (2) would be hard to detect after flips.

Spend time there. Find those subtle things.

We have lots of useful data to look at now. Let's make good use of it.

[Foxcastle]

I made this post in response to you last time you brought this point up. the problem is, Vash didn't really come in to my satisfaction, so I voted him after bozo answered questions to my satisfaction. I was still in my mindset of ignoring Rj to try to break my tunneling I'd been doing on him, so I voted Vash, hoping he would actually contribute more than 10 words at a time, but he never did.

2: Here's my biggest defense: In what fucking universe do I bus Jamie and not Rj?

Maybe the universe where you lose the thief on Day 1, and then on Day 2 you are about to lose your witch, but there is at least the potential to save him if you don't bus him? Which is this universe.

I know I'm not going to get a better response out of you on Rjm. I just find it incredibly unlikely that you scumread Rjm for days, made him your 110% scumread, and then forgot about him at end of day. Particularly when someone gave you a list with his name on it, and you responded by calling it garbage.

As for Vash... You jumped on Vash as a pressure vote with 10 minutes to go??? Is that what you're saying? He had been posting and participating since 33 minutes out. He offered to answer questions, and you asked for a reads list, and he gave you one! But uh, yeah, better keep that pressure on.

Next question: You had been voting Bozo as a pressure vote, and when you were satisfied with his participation, you moved to Vash, 1:57 out. Bozo makes a post replying to Thamrick on some points, and then a bit later says to you that he still finds Vash most suspicious. This seems to prompt you to get off Vash (to Tom), saying "I don't like that bozo likes the wagon I'm on." But when you voted Vash the first time, you were joining Bozo as the only two votes on Vash. Can you explain to me why you didn't seem to mind joining Bozo's vote at 1:57 to go, but were suddenly disgusted that Bozo liked the wagon you were on at 32 to go?

[Foxcastle]

Actually, I see that you actually answered my question on Vash, which I did ask about the first time you voted, and didn't refer to the second time you voted him.

Sorry, my criticism of you for your second vote is unwarranted, since you were responding to my question about the first Vash vote.

[thamrick]

If Mean is town -
it seems weird for RJ to latch onto her being town leader. I agree it seemed like he was doing it because of her Balki read. I don't know why that would make sense as it seems like it's going off the assumption that Mean should know that Balki is a good mafia player and that he's a tough D1 target, which neither of them would know because they're both new and didn't have access to the QT yet. He might have actually believed that she had good reasoning about the gun and about her Balki accusation even if he didn't buy the Balki accusation. He didn't even say he was townreading Balki. He seemed like he weirdly backed off the Balki read:

@brainbomb I don’t have a strong read on balki yet. Her read wasn’t what I and everyone else was impressed with. Are you even reading what I put?

Also, how come you read Mean as scum? You still haven’t told us.

I struggle to buy the Jamiet consistently listing her as town D1 aspect of this though. She didn't give me overly townie vibes D1 when Jamiet had posted his first reads. It could have been him trying to win over an easy sheep in a new player or maybe he knew Balki was scum and that him flipping scum would make Jamiet look better by townreading the person that was accusing him.

In this case:
Balki town - explains Rj's hedgy Balki read while pushing Mean as townleader while she's voting Balki. Balki was pushing Jamiet. Jamiet putting Mean as town maybe he hoped that would eliminate Balki and relieve the pressure on him.

Balki scum - hard to explain why Rj would be so focused on pushing Mean as townleader while not scumreading Balki. Clearly not bussing, but also working against his scum buddy.


If Mean is scum -
Rj was a newbie scum. He was WAY too focused on Mean being townleader. He could have been trying to set up Mean as a lead voice in the town to direct mislynches. This is a bold strategy and he was very transparent about it if it's the case.

Jamiet listed RJ as scum twice. His first time in particular is funny knowing RJ's alignment - "Rjcmf looks quite scummy right now" He was already setting up ability to walk back on it. Regardless though, Jamiet would've know that RJ was making himself look very suspicious. To me, listing Mean as town would have been risky since there was already a clear RJ-Mean link.

In this case:
Balki town - Mean just happened to be focused on Balki while RJ pushed her as a leader. Balki was pressuring Jamiet so Mean kept after Balki and Jamiet propped Mean up too (this is the part I struggle with. I have a hard time believing Jamiet didn't know RJ would eventually hang for his weirdness and attempting to distance himself (which he did) and the rest of his team from RJ (which listing Mean as townread doesn't do))

Balki scum - VERY hard for me to believe. RJ propping Mean while she was bussing Balki and Balki going hard after Jamiet just doesn't make sense. The Jamiet-RJ-Mean-Balki scumteam would be the most disfunctional scumteam ever.


So breaking down the 4 cases, I agree. It seems like the two most likely scenarios soft-clear Balki.

[brainbomb]

Day One Vote Count 4.1

ND (4): snowy801*, bozotheclown, Rjmcf, Foxcastle
Balki Bartokomous (3): MeanLaQueefa, yavuzovic, Maniac*
DemonRHK (2): Tom Bombadil, Ezio
VastaNeurotic (2): Jamiet99uk, brainbomb
Jamiet99uk (2): Balki Bartokomous, DemonRHK
brainbomb (1): bo_sox48
yavuzovic (1): dargorygel
Rjmcf (1): thamrick
Ezio (1): rdrivera2005
RDrivera2005 (1): reedeer1
Reedeer1 (1): VashtaNeurotic
snowy801 (1):ND


Not voted (1): SuperSteve

Currently ND is set to be lynched. You have 18 minutes remaining.

Wolve candidates are the bolded folk.

1. DemonRHK - WS MeanLaQueefa (his 3rd scumread)
2. Foxcastle - no answer
3. ND - no answer
4. bozotheclown -no answer
5. Ezio - no answrr
6. rdrivera2005 - no answer despite promising he would at Start of night
7. yavuzovic - WS vash
8. rjmcf - Demon or Ezio
9. Balki Bartokomous - would give all a facial then shoot dargo
10. Jamiet99uk DEAD
11. reedeer1 - WS Ezio or Rjmcf but not his top scumread rivera
12. brainbomb
13. VashtaNeurotic - wants no guns given out
14. Tom Bombadil - WS bozo or Rjmcf
15. Maniac - no answer*
16. dargorygel - no answer
17. thamrick WS vash or Rjmcf
18. snowy801 - no answer*
19. bo_sox48 - no answer
20. MeanLaQueefa - will shoot bb
21. SuperSteve*

Tom opens voting mean instead of either top shot.
Reedeer ends up voting bo all day as placeholder
Thamrick gave up on his rj read
Yavuz would shoot vash but never ends up pushing vash
Demon would shoot mean but never votes them

[brainbomb]

Reedeer shouldve been bolded in top one too

[brainbomb]

ND probably not scum
Doubt a newb scum tries to bus. With no coaching.

[brainbomb]

Tom reedeer and tham.all say theyd shoot rjmcf but all list him.2nd best choice

[rdrivera2005]

Finally got some time today to read the thread. I agree that the most likely cenario is Balki being town. Will try to do some vote analisys and post my reads as I don´t know when I will be online again.

[brainbomb]

Is that subtle enough for ye balki