MAFIA XXXVIII Sign Up Thread

[Jamiet99uk]

Fuck you, Brainbomb, you do shit all the time that's against the spirit of your game and not advancing your win condition. Stick it up your ass.

spirit of *the* game, even

[brainbomb]

Fuck you, Brainbomb, you do shit all the time that's against the spirit of your game and not advancing your win condition. Stick it up your ass.

You shouldnt be recusing yourself from following rule 6 and 7 simply because of perceived rule violations from another player.

[Jamiet99uk]

Fuck you, Brainbomb, you do shit all the time that's against the spirit of your game and not advancing your win condition. Stick it up your ass.

You shouldnt be recusing yourself from following rule 6 and 7 simply because of perceived rule violations from another player.

Blind hipfiring you D1 if I am the Vig does not violate rule 7 in my opinion. It increases town's chances of winning because it removes your anti-town bullshit from the game.

[brainbomb]

GM teams on a game to game basis reserve the right to apply or enforce whatever rules concern them.

Ive not been informed I violated any rules by anyone. So perhaps you are mistaken. The gm team last game reviewed any possible violations and there was no follow up. I interpret that to mean the GMs opted to be very liberal with regards to rule interpretations, me offering to eat 10,000 hot dogs was clearly amusong, not game breaking, a few people giving +1's was quickly nipped in the bud, no one was sanctioned, and the conceding thing was also a rule added that no ones ever going to actually enforce or take seriously. Its drama, not game breaking unless yer actually scum chaqa who tells his real role and concedes for his team. The difference there was chaqa outed guak and resigned for townread kakarrotto and rivera. Which did break the game.

And finally all important is GMs reserve the right rule 0 to do anything they want.

[bo_sox48]

You two are immensely entertaining but if you use up all your testosterone-fueled vexation before the game starts, you won't leave me any obvious clues in your bickering as to whether or not you're town early on on day 1. Kindly save it until then.

[Squigs44]

I'm still waiting on the hotdogs BB

[brainbomb]

Fuck you, Brainbomb, you do shit all the time that's against the spirit of your game and not advancing your win condition. Stick it up your ass.

You shouldnt be recusing yourself from following rule 6 and 7 simply because of perceived rule violations from another player.

Blind hipfiring you D1 if I am the Vig does not violate rule 7 in my opinion. It increases town's chances of winning because it removes your anti-town bullshit from the game.

Yes but its potentially game breaking for a variety of reasons.
1. The GMs are supposed to rng the game, youve put them in a position where if I roll scum and you roll vig the scumteams at immediate unfair disadvantage. Youre basically manipulating gms into having some scenarios where a reroll is a consideration. Which shouldnt happen.

[RagingIke297]

Game starts August 6th at 5:00PM EST and 9:00PM UTC

PLEASE START CONFIRMS

GM's: RagingIke, WarLegend

Players:

1.Yavuzovic
2. brainbomb
3. ND
4. Squigs44
5. ChippeRock
6. bozo
7. Jamiet99uk
8. y2kjbk
9. worcej
10. Vecna
11. Ghug
12. Bo
13. damo666
14.rdrivera2005
15. snowy801
16. BismarckAlive
17. flash2015
18. Ezio
19. Darg
20. Foxcastle
21. xorxes
22. DoubtingThomas
23. HR

Sub
1. DrCJG

Final Ruling on the Time Stone:

To make my life easier, the time stone will take time from one phase and give it to the other based on the players instruction. If D1 is 1 hour longer, then N1 will start 1 hour later. If N1 is 3 hours shorter, D2 will be 3 hours longer. **The next phase starts immediately upon the previous one ending, and runs to its normal deadline**

[brainbomb]

Simply put, promises to policy lynch are understandable. And require you to actually gather support to do so. Hipfiring for pregame grudges is in fact game breaking OGI.

[brainbomb]

Confirm

[Squigs44]

Some rules we should consider amending on webdip.

Use of OGI and Angleshooting

"

2. Do Not Sabotage

You are expected to play to your win condition(s). Intentionally undermining your team is not allowed. Joining a game with sole intent to troll is not allowed. ("Bad" or "alternative" plays, however, are allowed, if you sincerely believe in their merit.)

Severe or repeated offenses may result in a permanent ban from Mafia Universe with no appeal."

This rule doesnt really explain what sabotage is.

Mu writes about OGI very well:

The spirit of the rule regarding OGI is essentially this: no one should ever post anything that isn't about the game that a second player could reasonably make an alignment read based on.

Frequently, it's the second-order effects that OGI has on the game that are so disruptive. Even if you personally see nothing wrong / nothing alignment indicative about asking the game host a question in the thread, or commenting on a player's online activity elsewhere, or making a read based on what someone who's in another game is doing in your game, it's the catastrophic ripple effect that discussing these things in the game thread has on game integrity that's the problem. Players can and will read into your OGI comments, and players will read into those comments, and so on, and suddenly the game is no longer self-contained, no longer actually about the game.

To be clear: Sometimes OGI will influence a read of yours. It happens to everyone. "Man, Person X is posting up a storm in this other game, but is a complete lurker here. Wonder if they randed wolf." That kind of thinking is bound to happen sometimes; it's unavoidable to a certain extent. What is completely unacceptable is publicly bringing up that read in the game thread.

~~~~~~`~~~
Angleshooting

Angleshooting is defined as doing things, or applying rules, in ways they weren't intended in order to gain an advantage in a game. In mafia, a common example of this is using OGI (out of game information) to exert public pressure or influence on the game, to publicly give reads based on OGI, or in more extreme cases, to use information acquired through illegitimate means to covertly influence a game. Angleshooting also covers all intentional uses of any flaws/quirks in the forum software / modbot in order to subvert the spirit of the game.

This definition is purposefully non-specific, because angleshooting is more of a general idea than a specific case. Generally speaking, you know it when you see it, and it can run the gamut from relatively innocent/harmless to malicious and blatant cheating.

A good rule of thumb is if you're attempting to push a game in a particular direction, and your reasons for doing so are not based on what's directly happened in the game, or meta, you're in the danger zone.

Mafia Universe is firmly against angleshooting. If you are unsure if a particular action/read is angleshooting or not, (privately) ask the game host and/or a moderator. If you encounter something in a game that you believe to be angleshooting, report the post and inform the game host, and the moderators and game host will take a look at it.

I think rule 2 should include this.

You shouldnt be able to discuss if vash is on discord, but is neglecting the game
You shouldnt make promises to influence the game based on things that are unrelated, xorxes busy in a full press game, xanthor busy slayin orcs ect.

I agree to that this should be implemented here.

Also, it was super annoying when people scumread me because I subbed in. I think that was a big example of the game getting disrupted when out of game content got brought up. It annoyed me to the point where I literally posted a screenshot of an email to try to stop it. I apologize if that wasn't allowed but I was honestly just trying to get people to move on from the issue and that was the only way I knew how to definitively prove that my entrance into the game was legit.

[Squigs44]

Confirm

[brainbomb]

Most sites discussing reason for subs is prohibited. We liberally apply rules here because were a very non serious mafia community. We had a council that never once edited our rules. Never once banned anyone. Most people self moderate here. But assuming subs are scum or the urgency to add subs is scum indicative is ogi

[brainbomb]

Rather than making our rulebook bigger I think we can have 4 basic rules.
1. Dont share your real pm or real gm conversations
2. Dont talk about the game other places
3. Dont use ogi/angleshooting
4. Dont flake out

[DoubtingThomas]

confirm

[rdrivera2005]

Confirmed.

And if I am vig I will hipfire whoever that suggest I am scum just because of stats.

[WarLegend]

Is there a line for GMing? I have a game I think people would like. It would be really quick too, small player pool. Can I hop in next?

[flash2015]

Some rules we should consider amending on webdip.

Use of OGI and Angleshooting

"

2. Do Not Sabotage

You are expected to play to your win condition(s). Intentionally undermining your team is not allowed. Joining a game with sole intent to troll is not allowed. ("Bad" or "alternative" plays, however, are allowed, if you sincerely believe in their merit.)

Severe or repeated offenses may result in a permanent ban from Mafia Universe with no appeal."

This rule doesnt really explain what sabotage is.

Mu writes about OGI very well:

The spirit of the rule regarding OGI is essentially this: no one should ever post anything that isn't about the game that a second player could reasonably make an alignment read based on.

Frequently, it's the second-order effects that OGI has on the game that are so disruptive. Even if you personally see nothing wrong / nothing alignment indicative about asking the game host a question in the thread, or commenting on a player's online activity elsewhere, or making a read based on what someone who's in another game is doing in your game, it's the catastrophic ripple effect that discussing these things in the game thread has on game integrity that's the problem. Players can and will read into your OGI comments, and players will read into those comments, and so on, and suddenly the game is no longer self-contained, no longer actually about the game.

To be clear: Sometimes OGI will influence a read of yours. It happens to everyone. "Man, Person X is posting up a storm in this other game, but is a complete lurker here. Wonder if they randed wolf." That kind of thinking is bound to happen sometimes; it's unavoidable to a certain extent. What is completely unacceptable is publicly bringing up that read in the game thread.

~~~~~~`~~~
Angleshooting

Angleshooting is defined as doing things, or applying rules, in ways they weren't intended in order to gain an advantage in a game. In mafia, a common example of this is using OGI (out of game information) to exert public pressure or influence on the game, to publicly give reads based on OGI, or in more extreme cases, to use information acquired through illegitimate means to covertly influence a game. Angleshooting also covers all intentional uses of any flaws/quirks in the forum software / modbot in order to subvert the spirit of the game.

This definition is purposefully non-specific, because angleshooting is more of a general idea than a specific case. Generally speaking, you know it when you see it, and it can run the gamut from relatively innocent/harmless to malicious and blatant cheating.

A good rule of thumb is if you're attempting to push a game in a particular direction, and your reasons for doing so are not based on what's directly happened in the game, or meta, you're in the danger zone.

Mafia Universe is firmly against angleshooting. If you are unsure if a particular action/read is angleshooting or not, (privately) ask the game host and/or a moderator. If you encounter something in a game that you believe to be angleshooting, report the post and inform the game host, and the moderators and game host will take a look at it.

I think rule 2 should include this.

You shouldnt be able to discuss if vash is on discord, but is neglecting the game
You shouldnt make promises to influence the game based on things that are unrelated, xorxes busy in a full press game, xanthor busy slayin orcs ect.

I agree to that this should be implemented here.

Also, it was super annoying when people scumread me because I subbed in. I think that was a big example of the game getting disrupted when out of game content got brought up. It annoyed me to the point where I literally posted a screenshot of an email to try to stop it. I apologize if that wasn't allowed but I was honestly just trying to get people to move on from the issue and that was the only way I knew how to definitively prove that my entrance into the game was legit.

A lot of the game appears to be about "meta" reading which is outside of the current game, much more than I assumed or like. I saw this as just another type of "meta" too. I brought it up to see how you would react (I wasn't sure whether you were town or just really good scum) as I needed to move in a new direction after both BB and Jamie rolled town.

If you think I was inferring that you or teacher2 cheated, I apologize as that was in no way what I intended to infer. I actually thought it would be OK to encourage a sub to join the game, especially if a mod kill would have substantially affected game balance. If we say that this sort of inquiry is completely off limits I will refrain from it in the future.

[Jamiet99uk]

CONFIRM

[RagingIke297]

##GM note, due to the time stone and the interactions it may have on the peterbot, the bot is set to have 60 hour long days and 30 hour long nights, THIS IS NOT HOW LONG THE PHASES ARE. As GM's we will move the deadline to suit the time stone.
Also, while I was thinking about this, the only stones whos use is private is the Reality Stone and Power Stone. ALL others when activated will be posted in the main chat with what they are doing when it happens (space, time, soul, mind).
Also, another thing, the time stone "use" is not permanent. It functions like the power stone in that the holder can *reasonably (not 72 times a phase)* change their mind as long as the deadline has not passed. Ex. D1 the holder feels the town needs more time and moves the deadline 30 minutes back, 5 minutes before the new deadline he is still not comfortable, he moves it back again 30 minutes. After about 5 minutes into the second 30 minutes with 25 minutes remaining, the stone wielder likes the lynch and decides to end the day right then.