M61 - The Mastermind's Revenge - Game Thread - HIDDEN

[dargorygel]

Before I go... regarding the EoN reads.
It does make sense that players can get good value from EoN reads. Because it is simply posting. And posting helps others have info... but there is NOT some magical value in EoN reads. They are not 'better' or 'more informative.' In fact, if you can't be bothered to take part (i know... I am often a lurker) an EoN read does not really help.

[rdrivera2005]

@Hellenic Riot
Kindly (or not kindly) give some reason for your kgray vote. I do not see where you mention them in a post, or where stuff was mentioned immediately before your vote.

It's worse than that, Dargorygel. HR actually responded to a post from Bamilton, asking him to explain his Kgray vote, and he implicitly refused to do so.

A lot of names haven't crossed my lips, and I don't think I've given any reads on any that have

That is pretty blatant for HR to be scum, though, right? Unless he is being TStbS.

Nevertheless, I'd really like to hear his reasons. Really.

I don't think this is scummy from HR. And I understand his concerns with Kgray, I am not feeling the obvtown vibes she usually gave when she is town. Plus, she is my top choice for a recruit....

[Jamiet99uk]

That is pretty blatant for HR to be scum, though, right? Unless he is being TStbS.

Nevertheless, I'd really like to hear his reasons. Really.

I don't know if its scummy or not.

I do know that it is unhelpful. If HR is town then he should be trying to help town, not doing whatever it is that he is doing.

[Jamiet99uk]

I also agree with Rdrivera that Seth appears to be coasting. Throughout D1 he made comments that suggested he was thinking about people and their arguments and interactions, but then he apparently chose not to share this thinking with the class. He only started actually explaining his thoughts when pressured to do so, mostly by Bo_Sox if I recall.

[kgray]

Teacon's last messages remembered me of that game he and Xorxes fight all over the game and both were town. I don't want to go this way.

I will change to
##vote Seth - He is coasting.

Who do you think teacon is fighting with?

[kgray]

I am concerned about Kgray continuing to push the "Jamie is unreasonably convinced that Ghug is town" line of questioning / argument:

I hope you're being pretend accepting of this view for the purposes of questioning rather than actually buying it, because that would be dumb, and faux acceptance is just scummy.

I am trying to understand why Jamie is so sure that you're town even though he claims you are telling lies. That is very unlike the Jamie I know.

Even after I gave Kgray this explanation:

Why do you townread ghug? What has he done that's townie enough to make up for the bad reasons he's given for scumreading you?

First of all, just because someone has an inaccurate or poorly-argued scumread on me, that doesn't make them scum, it makes them wrong. Townies are often wrong.

Second of all, I think that town Ghug is more likely to tunnel someone based on loose instinct, and I am not sure that scum Ghug would be acting this way.

I did have a stronger reason which temporarily made me almost completely certain, but I've established I can't be sure of that - and I'm not able to elaborate on that point right now. But, my gut is still telling me Ghug is town. I could be wrong...

Emphasis added.

It's as if Kgray is more interested in seeing something scummy in my interactions with Ghug, than in properly assessing my answers to these questions.

That is very unlike the Kgray I know.

(1) I cannot assess your reason for townreading ghug if you will not say what it is, and since I'm assuming it's something mechanical I didn't ask about it for obvious reasons.

(2) I note that you think that scum!ghug wouldn't tunnel you this way. I do not know that I agree with you and I'm frankly still surprised with how little you fought back against his case.

(3) Who are you to say that you know me?

[Hamilton Brian]

Well, back for another scintillating day. I, too, want HR to come out in the open with their voting of kgray.

For now, I am going to
##VOTE TEACON

On the surface, there's something in the length of the posting that makes me consider they are trying to obfuscate from the task at hand. There also are some incongruencies from the opening day. So yes, I am going to tunnel.

[Jamiet99uk]

(1) I cannot assess your reason for townreading ghug if you will not say what it is, and since I'm assuming it's something mechanical I didn't ask about it for obvious reasons.

You are missing my point.

My point was that my level of certainty on Ghug's town-ness decreased, and I said so. Yet you continued to behave as if I was saying I was certain about Ghug, which I clearly was not. That is the point of the observation I was making there.

[kgray]

##VOTE CHAQA

Welcome back, Jamie...

Why chaqa? I was just wondering where to move my vote off from teacon, and was thinking about chaqa.

It's a small thing... but I keep thinking about his notebook. Still no notes. And i find that stated intentions unfulfilled CAN be a scumtell.

Chaqa is often useless in the first phase, and this D1 he even stated his intention to do nothing for the first 24 hours, which you may remember I argued with him about. He then posted once last night, which was no more than a threat to vote for me today.

So I say bring it on, Chaqa. I want to see him participate today. If I'm his top scumread I want him to push me. If he thinks Flum's flip confirms that I'm scum, as he implied, I want to know why.

What I see, based on D1, (especially but not exclusively EoD1) and N1 is a Chaqa who will be quite happy to sit back, let Ghug or someone else push a wagon on me, and then join it. I'm not going to settle for that. I want Chaqa to put in some work.

I agree with this. tbh I never expected Chaqa would actually keep a notebook, but his play here is more than just lazy. All he's done is talk about mechanics and stated that he didn't care about the first 24 hours but still hasn't really contributed since. And where he has given reads looks really bad. He was being so hedgy with his Jamie scumread and if Jamie is town then it really looks like Chaqa was setting him up for the next miskill by saying either Jamie or Flum had to be scum, and using Flum's flip to lock in a scumread on Jamie.

##vote Chaqa

[damo666]

I also want to know why Teacon can't tell the difference between Fluminator and Vecna. Their names don't even sound remotely alike.

I noticed that, too. The conspiracy theory part of my soul made me wonder if teacon had been writing a lot to vecna in the QT, and it just slipped out of his fingertips.

Agree this is suspiciously weird.

##vote teacon

[kgray]

It's worse than that, Dargorygel. HR actually responded to a post from Bamilton, asking him to explain his Kgray vote, and he implicitly refused to do so.

That is pretty blatant for HR to be scum, though, right? Unless he is being TStbS.

Nevertheless, I'd really like to hear his reasons. Really.

I don't think this is scummy from HR. And I understand his concerns with Kgray, I am not feeling the obvtown vibes she usually gave when she is town. Plus, she is my top choice for a recruit....

lol how can you understand his concerns when he doesn't say what they are?

[kgray]

I also agree with Rdrivera that Seth appears to be coasting. Throughout D1 he made comments that suggested he was thinking about people and their arguments and interactions, but then he apparently chose not to share this thinking with the class. He only started actually explaining his thoughts when pressured to do so, mostly by Bo_Sox if I recall.

Last game seth was fairly in-and-out in terms of participation, and I don't think it's scummy to not type everything you're thinking in a stream-of-consciousness type way. But I am still concerned with the way seth talked about the scum mechanics. If bozo is correct that scum would try to force that they didn't know how that works, then seth is my top candidate.

[kgray]

Well, back for another scintillating day. I, too, want HR to come out in the open with their voting of kgray.

For now, I am going to
##VOTE TEACON

On the surface, there's something in the length of the posting that makes me consider they are trying to obfuscate from the task at hand. There also are some incongruencies from the opening day. So yes, I am going to tunnel.

Who else do you scumread, Hamilton?

[rdrivera2005]

Teacon's last messages remembered me of that game he and Xorxes fight all over the game and both were town. I don't want to go this way.

I will change to
##vote Seth - He is coasting.

Who do you think teacon is fighting with?

I don't think he is fighting exactly, but revolving around the same arguments and doing it in a way that can be annoying. I think he usually does this as town and is more light as scum.

[teacon7]

%%Vote Bo_sox
%%Vote Teacon
%%Vote Teacon
%%Vote Teacon
%%Vote Teacon
%%Vote Ghug
%%Vote Seth
%%Vote Teacon
%%Vote Jamiet
%%Vote Bo_sox

> be teacon7
> ask flum to communicate with votes
> flum posts multiple votes in short order
> this is harder than I thought
> no idea what he's saying.
> /usr/teacon7/gifs/This_Plan_Could_Have_Gone_Better.gif

He voted for bo to sheep me.

Then he voted for teacon four times to suggest we should think about it more.

Then he voted for me, Seth, and teacon, to suggest we're his townreads, with Jamie at the end as the signal the list was over.

Then he voted for bo to sheep me again.

Yeah, that seems right. Here's the questions he was answering:

Vote for me if you approve of this plan.
Vote for me twice in a row if you want more options.

Flum, you should vote for your top townreads and then vote Jamie again at the end to signify completion.

@flum, maniac is right ... you could likely put all the votes in one post, particularly if they're answering a question. That said, I don't have new ideas on communication rn so I'll have to get back to you with the "more options" bit later.

[rdrivera2005]

I also want to know why Teacon can't tell the difference between Fluminator and Vecna. Their names don't even sound remotely alike.

I noticed that, too. The conspiracy theory part of my soul made me wonder if teacon had been writing a lot to vecna in the QT, and it just slipped out of his fingertips.

Agree this is suspiciously weird.

##vote teacon

I think this a really bad reason to vote someone.

[teacon7]

I also want to know why Teacon can't tell the difference between Fluminator and Vecna. Their names don't even sound remotely alike.

yeah that was a derp moment. I meant fluminator.

[teacon7]

@rivera -
What do you make of damo's banana?

[rdrivera2005]

@rivera -
What do you make of damo's banana?

I don't intend to make anything with Damo's banana.

[kgray]

(1) I cannot assess your reason for townreading ghug if you will not say what it is, and since I'm assuming it's something mechanical I didn't ask about it for obvious reasons.

You are missing my point.

My point was that my level of certainty on Ghug's town-ness decreased, and I said so. Yet you continued to behave as if I was saying I was certain about Ghug, which I clearly was not. That is the point of the observation I was making there.

Okay, I did somewhat miss that point, but that was also because of mechanical reasons that you can't talk about right? So I'm not really able to factor that into my assessment of your thought process.