M1024: Panhandlin' [GAME THREAD]

[Jamiet99uk]

In the entire history of Mafia, has a Mafia player ever actually gone "oh, you got me" and straight-up confessed to their crimes? Isn't that even against the rules / spirit of the game?

I like your hard questions to others Jamiet – but I don't know if I find the times where you respond to something with "I am town" more funny or suspicious.

I mean, do I really need to say "2 is False because I am Town" here? Which is uselessly unverifiable for anyone non-Koala and therefore unhelful? I thought your whole spiel to me early on was about being helpful to town?

Sometimes people are just caught, yes, and fess up.

I've done it.
Brainbomb has done it.
I'm sure others have.

It's not against your win con because you can fess up and still make misleading statements that protect or obfuscate your team mates.

[Jamiet99uk]

I'm Town, by the way.

[worcej]

In the entire history of Mafia, has a Mafia player ever actually gone "oh, you got me" and straight-up confessed to their crimes? Isn't that even against the rules / spirit of the game?

I like your hard questions to others Jamiet – but I don't know if I find the times where you respond to something with "I am town" more funny or suspicious.

I mean, do I really need to say "2 is False because I am Town" here? Which is uselessly unverifiable for anyone non-Koala and therefore unhelful? I thought your whole spiel to me early on was about being helpful to town?

I did in a game where there was too much imbalance of PRs and had a 3 factions. I rolled scum and was frustrated that mass claiming broke the game for scum and it really became a town vs 3rd party game.

[worcej]

Trying to remember the number… it was Kitsune’s Serenity themed game.

[KoalaAttack]

I am the ultra-rare PR of CEO of Good Townie International and therefore am more Town than Jamiet (kind of like a Godfather is more hardened Mafia than a Goon). In fact I am so town I was given 2 PRs since I'm also the Townie Heel.

[KoalaAttack]

But how long do you wait? And why wouldn't the suspect always claim The Doctor or The Coolest Role regardless of alignment?

Obviously Mafia would. But even a Townie – you folks keep telling me how Townie suicide or non-defense of MK is terrible. How is this different?

Feel free to tell me that answering this mid-game helps the Mafia and not.

You wait until Rdr responds.

If you are a townie, fakeclaiming doc or cop is the worst thing you can do, as the real cop and doc will counterclaim and it will out them, so it will result in you still dying but also out a PR for mafia.

I see, essentially Town can afford to trade 1-for-1 while Mafia can not. Thanks for the explanation.

[Hamilton Brian]

[

You've hacked those quotes around horribly, the first line is from me, the second one is Fluminator replying.

Yes, I did. However, in all of this, there's this rush to execute rivera AND I am saying, "Aren't we being too hasty?"

So comment on the mangling of the quotes but no comment with regard to the substance.

[Hamilton Brian]

Rdrivera has moved up because:

(a) He has been super inactive and his D2 was particularly egregious in this regard. I will re-read if I have time before EoN but I cannot call to mind a single thing he has done which would incline me to townread him.

(b) Rdrivera is dangerous as scum and letting him coast quietly into the endgame would be a serious problem if he is indeed scum.

(c) He just feels off.

Bozo is still at the top of my list after the latest example of being wrong about who Worcej was even voting for at EoD, which, as I said, strikes me as Bozo lazily looking for his own name rather than actually paying attention to everything that is going on. This strikes me as a scum!Bozo meta based on recent experiences.

Hamilton Brian has to be in contention if Bozo is scum, for obvious reasons.

Flum and Worcej scream town to me now and if I'm wrong about either, I'm sorry.

I feel like there's something contradictory in your reasoning vs the actions. Your premise on rivera is he "feels off" and is "dangerous as scum."

However, your top read for mafia is bozo, who right now is playing with "scum!bozo meta."

Yet you're on this bandwagon to execute rivera too. Unless I have missed something between this post I am quoting and when you voted for rivera today, what's changed?

Rivera flips town and we kill them because of "off feelings," what the result for us? What do we gain?

[Jamiet99uk]

[

You've hacked those quotes around horribly, the first line is from me, the second one is Fluminator replying.

Yes, I did. However, in all of this, there's this rush to execute rivera AND I am saying, "Aren't we being too hasty?"

So comment on the mangling of the quotes but no comment with regard to the substance.

I don't want to execute Rdrivera until he speaks.

However I think we should pressure him to appear.

[Jamiet99uk]

Rdrivera has moved up because:

(a) He has been super inactive and his D2 was particularly egregious in this regard. I will re-read if I have time before EoN but I cannot call to mind a single thing he has done which would incline me to townread him.

(b) Rdrivera is dangerous as scum and letting him coast quietly into the endgame would be a serious problem if he is indeed scum.

(c) He just feels off.

Bozo is still at the top of my list after the latest example of being wrong about who Worcej was even voting for at EoD, which, as I said, strikes me as Bozo lazily looking for his own name rather than actually paying attention to everything that is going on. This strikes me as a scum!Bozo meta based on recent experiences.

Hamilton Brian has to be in contention if Bozo is scum, for obvious reasons.

Flum and Worcej scream town to me now and if I'm wrong about either, I'm sorry.

I feel like there's something contradictory in your reasoning vs the actions. Your premise on rivera is he "feels off" and is "dangerous as scum."

However, your top read for mafia is bozo, who right now is playing with "scum!bozo meta."

Yet you're on this bandwagon to execute rivera too. Unless I have missed something between this post I am quoting and when you voted for rivera today, what's changed?

Rivera flips town and we kill them because of "off feelings," what the result for us? What do we gain?

Lol.

Saying he is "off" is a long standing in-joke, sorry, because I get really riled up when that's someone's only case.

Bozo is still my top scumread.

I am not a vanity voter. I vote for wagons I think are viable. Everyone else moved to Rdrivera and I absolutely do not townread him; he's in my top 3 scum.

Would you vote Bozo with me, Hamilton?

[Hamilton Brian]

Rivera appearing would be ideal. I also recognize that you were advocating for bozo - rivera wagons so I suppose there isn't a contradiction in your thinking, jamie.

I just don't recognize the desire for the hammering.

[Jamiet99uk]

Rivera appearing would be ideal. I also recognize that you were advocating for bozo - rivera wagons so I suppose there isn't a contradiction in your thinking, jamie.

I just don't recognize the desire for the hammering.

I am not hammering.

I will hammer in due course if Rdrivera does not appear, because failing to participate if you are town and you KNOW you are a chief suspect is deeply anti-town.

[Hamilton Brian]

Would you vote Bozo with me, Hamilton?

Probably, maybe, but I am really not sold on bozo being scum. However, it was almost accomplished on D2 had I not screwed things up.

[Hamilton Brian]

I keep coming back to flum. They seem to be carrying this crown of "most townread." Now, they haven't done anything super-mafia like, but the iso through the past phases doesn't ring out as "super town," either.

I feel like we are getting stuck making reads on "vibes" and "mafia would be stupid to do that and bring that much attention to themselves."

[Jamiet99uk]

Would you vote Bozo with me, Hamilton?

Probably, maybe, but I am really not sold on bozo being scum. However, it was almost accomplished on D2 had I not screwed things up.

I see.

Do you see how from my perspective, this is somewhat concerning?

- Rdr is the most viable wagon today, clearly.

- You criticised me for moving from my top scumread, Bozo, onto Rdrivera, who you don't seem keen to vote for.

- I ask if you'd therefore vote Bozo, who you seem to think I should be voting for.

- Your response is hedgy and non committal.

If you're opposed to an Rdr wagon, and you are also reluctant to join a Bozo wagon, how do you actually expect town to get a useful result from today? What wagon are you proposing and how are you going to persuade other people to join it??

[Jamiet99uk]

I keep coming back to flum. They seem to be carrying this crown of "most townread." Now, they haven't done anything super-mafia like, but the iso through the past phases doesn't ring out as "super town," either.

I feel like we are getting stuck making reads on "vibes" and "mafia would be stupid to do that and bring that much attention to themselves."

Do you think you can persuade the majority of remaining players to vote for Fluminator today?

[Hamilton Brian]

I don't have any particular scumread and statistically I ought to vote between Bona rdr and Koala. Having said I'll move off K it's a toss up. Let's try ##vote rdr

Damo's reads and work weren't infallible, but he put the work in. Assuming the effort was genuine, they said vote between bona, rivera, and koala. Only 2 remain. Again, it's faulty rationale to exercise the killing on that basis.

[Hamilton Brian]

I keep coming back to flum. They seem to be carrying this crown of "most townread." Now, they haven't done anything super-mafia like, but the iso through the past phases doesn't ring out as "super town," either.

I feel like we are getting stuck making reads on "vibes" and "mafia would be stupid to do that and bring that much attention to themselves."

Do you think you can persuade the majority of remaining players to vote for Fluminator today?

Christ, no. I can't even convince myself.

[worcej]

Flight #2 - airplane mode for ~3 hours.

[Hamilton Brian]

Do you see how from my perspective, this is somewhat concerning? Sure.

- Rdr is the most viable wagon today, clearly. Clearly.

- You criticised me for moving from my top scumread, Bozo, onto Rdrivera, who you don't seem keen to vote for. I realize now this move fits your dynamic of wanting a rivera-bozo competition.

- I ask if you'd therefore vote Bozo, who you seem to think I should be voting for.

- Your response is hedgy and non committal. Seemed that bozo weighed more for you than rivera; at the end of the day this is less about my criticism/questioning your motives.

If you're opposed to an Rdr wagon, and you are also reluctant to join a Bozo wagon, how do you actually expect town to get a useful result from today? What wagon are you proposing and how are you going to persuade other people to join it??

I'd say make the necessary wagons. Rivera. Bozo. Our numbers should work that there wouldn't be a tie. If they were the only two options, I'd have a hard time being noncommittal, wouldn't I?

But what gives more information? The hammering or the actual voting?