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tldr

some minor rule modernization
eden next GM
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by the way I think the changing avatars ruling maybe needs a little better elaboration.

For example Jamie changed his avatar to a seagull in light of the games theme. then he changed his avatar to troll fluminator. which sparked a debate about who the avatar was. then he changed it to a photoshopped green version of fluminators av. then he changed to mister belvedere.

are any of these specific changes being deemed game related, or a rule violation in future games?

President Eden wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:52 pm

For now, we announce a new rule which bans the conveying of game-relevant information via signatures and avatars, but we will continue monitoring the situation to determine if a better solution exists. As always, we welcome your feedback and suggestions.

Question, in the last game where I played, I had two avatars prepared, one with a living CJS and one where he was deceased. I was in the lucky (or unlucky?) position, not having to need to use the second avatar in that game, though I had planned, as soon as I was voted out or was target by a kill action (nk, gun), to change that avatar.

Would this kind of action be still accepted and inside the rules (because the flip situation would be known by everyone), or I would not be allowed to do so since technically, it conveys that my living status has ended?

Personally, I think it would be the former, but I would like to ask this before the next game, since I plan to do so again.

brainbomb wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:14 am

by the way I think the changing avatars ruling maybe needs a little better elaboration.

For example Jamie changed his avatar to a seagull in light of the games theme. then he changed his avatar to troll fluminator. which sparked a debate about who the avatar was. then he changed it to a photoshopped green version of fluminators av. then he changed to mister belvedere.

are any of these specific changes being deemed game related, or a rule violation in future games?

You and I got a chance to talk about this on Discord, but for the benefit of anyone who didn't see the conversation: all of these changes would not be rules violations. This rule is in line with the "no unsanctioned communications" rule and is more targeted at (thus far hypothetical) scenarios where one flips, learns private information in the god thread, and uses a signature or avatar to signal that information to living teammates.

Kakarroto wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:24 am

President Eden wrote: ↑

Mon Jun 12, 2023 11:52 pm

For now, we announce a new rule which bans the conveying of game-relevant information via signatures and avatars, but we will continue monitoring the situation to determine if a better solution exists. As always, we welcome your feedback and suggestions.

Question, in the last game where I played, I had two avatars prepared, one with a living CJS and one where he was deceased. I was in the lucky (or unlucky?) position, not having to need to use the second avatar in that game, though I had planned, as soon as I was voted out or was target by a kill action (nk, gun), to change that avatar.

Would this kind of action be still accepted and inside the rules (because the flip situation would be known by everyone), or I would not be allowed to do so since technically, it conveys that my living status has ended?

Personally, I think it would be the former, but I would like to ask this before the next game, since I plan to do so again.

This would also not be a rules violation, though admittedly my answer contradicts the plain meaning of the rule.

brainbomb wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 13, 2023 12:14 am

by the way I think the changing avatars ruling maybe needs a little better elaboration.

For example Jamie changed his avatar to a seagull in light of the games theme. then he changed his avatar to troll fluminator. which sparked a debate about who the avatar was. then he changed it to a photoshopped green version of fluminators av. then he changed to mister belvedere.

are any of these specific changes being deemed game related, or a rule violation in future games?

None of them revealed any game related info; I was careful not to. When I messed around with a version of Fluminator's avatar, I had no idea of his alignment. It was just fun.

On the other hand item III was my bad, I apologise. It was literally just the correction of a spelling error, but the point still stands that editing should be prohibited.

Wouldn't it be easier just to disallow avatar and signature changes in game?

Point 4: Fake claiming should be banned because it makes damo throw his cereal out the window in disgust

Point 5: Fake Banning should be claimed for the same reason.

I was recently walking on the street near Damo's flat*, when I was surprisingly hit on the head by a large bowl of Golden Grahams dropped from a window above. I got covered in milk. It was very distressing.

* For American readers, we say "flat" where you would say "condominium" or "apartment".

damo666 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:45 am

Wouldn't it be easier just to disallow avatar and signature changes in game?

And changing the name of the thread.

And violent use of breakfast cereals of all types.

And AI.

And anything annoying really.

damo666 wrote: ↑

Wed Jun 14, 2023 11:06 am

damo666 wrote: ↑

Tue Jun 13, 2023 11:45 am

Wouldn't it be easier just to disallow avatar and signature changes in game?

And changing the name of the thread.

And violent use of breakfast cereals of all types.

And AI.

And anything annoying really.

I don’t wanna be banned

Actually, I do have an actual point to raise on editing the subject like of the post (the name of the thread)...

It is visible in the thread, it does not mess with the bot, and there is a clear record that can't be altered, but also, the bot does not pick it up. Changes made to the subject line/thread title are usually just jokes, but I could see someone doing something silly with it—dropping a claim/crumb or adjusting it slightly to convey results of night actions, which I would find irritating but I'm not sure it's the end of the world; but I would find it problematic if someone voted in the subject line.

Edit to add: however, it appears that edits to the subject line do not trigger the tag that the post has been edited...

Edit to add: or maybe I just can't the tag for my own edits?

I could see a few years from now that banning AI will be a thing.

Council Announcements

M81 has concluded, and several events transpired which warrant Council attention.

I.

Chaqa is taking a leave of absence and has stepped away from the Council. We thank him for his two years of service on the Council and his many years of service to the community as a player and GM.

There are no current plans to fill this position, but the Council is working out the logistics of a restructuring which we believe would result in greater community involvement in setup review. We thank those of you who volunteered your time and efforts in the wake of Chaqa's departure, whether to serve as a Councilor or to provide help in other avenues. While we are not filling Chaqa's spot at this time, we will provide ways for those of you eager to help to do so. The changes will warrant a separate post, so be on the lookout for that.

II.

The Council has concluded its review of M81 and assesses the following disciplinary infraction:

Jamiet99uk is banned for two games.

I will call special attention to the fact that Jamie volunteered to serve a one-game ban, as I think this show of contrition deserves recognition. However, the Council believes that best interests are served with a slightly longer term, and imposes that term accordingly.

III.

The following rule change will take effect beginning with the next mafia game.

Public cheating insinuations and accusations in the game thread are banned. This is an amendment to the explanation of Rule 3. Going forward, if you have concerns that a player is cheating in an ongoing game, you are expected to direct these concerns privately to the GM first or, failing that, a Council member not in the game.

IV.

brainbomb is GMing the next Mafia game, M82. Signups will be posted soontm. (Probably very soon, he's been patiently and graciously waiting for me to hurry up with this post first.)

V.

As always, feel free to reach out to me or another Council member with any concerns via webDip DM or Discord.

Thanks,

Eden
Mafia Council

1. Does the Council intend making any announcements following the most recent game [e.g. re voting format]

2. What and who is next?

3. Is there an up to date spreadsheet or similar with results by player by alignment?

Bump.

Council Announcement

M82 has concluded. The items of business to address:

I.

During the game, a controversy erupted over the tallying of votes. Specifically, a player intended to vote for Hamilton Brian by stating "##vote Brian," which in context was relatively unambiguous as a vote for Hamilton Brian (f.x., there were no other players with a similar name, the bot did not recognize it as a vote for a different player). However, "Brian" was not a recognized nickname for Hamilton Brian in the bot, and the bot considered it an invalid vote. The GM resolved the issue by declaring that votes must be counted by the bot to be counted at all. Although other players had noted that the bot did not count the vote several hours before deadline, and although the GM implicitly did not count the vote by posting a vote count with three hours remaining which did not acknowledge the vote, there was no explicit affirmation from the GM that the vote would not count until approximately 10 minutes remained in the (shortened by mechanic) phase. The player stated that he believed his vote should count and that he would not change it; and when the phase ended, the GM warned the player.

After review, the Council finds the following:

1. Although GMs probably should refrain from warning players for failing to meet participation requirements in shortened days as a general principle, in this specific case the player was demonstrably capable of meeting requirements and affirmatively refused to comply with the voting requirements on principle. Thus, we find the warning was proper. This result was conveyed during the game but is restated here in our review.

2. We believe the warning adequately resolved any potential disciplinary concerns. Thus, we see no need to issue any sanctions or other comment.

3. We believe the community would be better off with one standard for which votes count, as the reduction in mental overhead for players is more valuable to us than the limited expressive value afforded to GMs by leaving it to their discretion. That said, it is obvious that the community has no consensus about what that standard will be, and we are not prepared to announce a standard method at this time. Therefore, we continue to leave it to GM discretion to determine whether a vote is valid. We continue to exercise a general power to review vote counting methods to resolve issues that may arise, but will also continue to exercise discretion and defer to GMs where possible.

4. Regarding nicknames themselves - we agree with the sentiment that "Brian" should have been counted by the bot as a valid nickname for Hamilton Brian. However, we do not have the ability to change nicknames ourselves. Do remember that changes to the bot are handled by our wonderful volunteer peterlund. In the meantime, we encourage players to view a given game's list of aliases (this one for M82 as an example) to determine if their vote will be counted by the bot. We hope to add Brian as a nickname for Hamilton Brian soonTM.

II.

ghug will be hosting M83 unless someone else volunteers. I will be cohosting. Signups will come out soonTM (we are currently working out ghug's mafia scheduling with his semis game in the Players' Championship!).

III.

As always, feel free to reach out to me or another Council member with any concerns via webDip DM or Discord.

Thanks,

Eden
Mafia Council

Hello friends.

Ghug has informed me that nobody is slated to run the next Mafia game.

I am willing to volunteer.

Great! Excited to join!