Mafia 85: Return from Lockdown

[Chaqa]

Oh, hold on Chaqa. You may not understand the setup. We don’t know our roles and we will get results that are identical to other roles. There are roles that can read like various other roles depending on the target. So it is not just claim/counterclaim.

Does that change your opinion at all?

Bunny was asking how the game would change if we know our roles. I assumed as a logical followup to the plan you want where:
1. We all pick a predetermined person
2. Collect results and cross-reference
3. Assign roles to people

Oh, right, I missed the context a bit.

And yes, that would be the plan. I haven’t run through scenarios, but I assume it will not be so easy to assign roles immediately, based on the kind of returns we get (and my assumption that the Council, as well as experienced players like yourself, would’ve raised warnings when the game was being set up). But I think it would allow us to form buckets for analysis and debate - which I know you like to do!

I can't really speak to what kind of review the game went through.

[BunnyGo]

What don't you like?

The stuff about inconsistency looks like something I'd expect scum to say as an excuse to vote out townies. How do you feel about your friend ghosting the game and then reappearing to vote out obvtown?

It was definitely an unexpected opening move. Didn't present her favorably at all but I think what's worse is that she didn't stick around to see the result.

since she hasn't said "hello" to us, what did you expect her to do?

[Chaqa]

Do you think that if we claim our results there is no room for theorizing and debate? Nevermind the influence of scum! I think this is much less of an Excel formula than you think it is.

I understand why you would not like “adhere or be anti-town.”

Let’s say we put aside the idea of a prescriptive targeting. Are you opposed to claiming your target and return in the morning?

No. I expect lots of people to do so. I might. I haven't really given it any thought yet.

The most important thing to consider, in my opinion, is that we can’t draw any meaningful clues from our returns without cross-referencing to other claimed returns. If we don’t claim, we basically throw away our powers. I suspect scum will not throw away theirs!

I think that if we don’t all claim, we make it harder for ALL town players to fully understand the meaning of their powers (consider getting a “town” return in isolation; who are you and what do you know?). Whoever does not claim actively deprives others of the fun of their role - and deprives themselves of the chance to learn valuable information and contribute to a shared Team Town victory!

Also, given that scum aren’t all vanilla goons, we are extra pooched if we don’t try to use our powers!

Stop using logic against me. Your jedi mind tricks won't work.

I see what you're saying. It will be difficult to know what results mean without collective results. I guess I mostly disagree with losing my choice of target.

[heartthrob24909]

would scum! chaq argue about this?

yes...?


shit...

no way town!heart ends on vanity. or disappears with 14 minutes and a teammate on the chopping blocj

why'd damo end on vanity?

scum team:

heart, sweet, froggy, neph?

I think there's some nice symmetry there and had good interactions between them all.

I encourage you to look closer at how town!heart ended several day phases 2 games ago. I think I ended a few days on vanity wagons that game. I did not have scum convictions about either Just or BK3K and it didn't feel right to me to vote for either.

BK3K's frustration/apathy/whatever looks a lot more townlike than scumlike to me and I don't believe I pointed it out live but choosing one of those 2 to go over the other was not a decision that made any sort of sense for me to weigh in on.

[Chaqa]

A question for all the good people…

Who thinks that scum don’t care about us mass claiming?

SCUM CARE ABOUT TOWN MASS CLAIMING
1.
2.
3…

SCUM DON’T CARE ABOUT TOWN MASS CLAIMING
1.
2.
3…

I don't think reframing this debate as pro-scum vs. anti-scum is productive to convincing people. Those of us with misgivings will wind up with a stink of scum because we didn't go along with groupthink.

[heartthrob24909]

A question for all the good people…

Who thinks that scum don’t care about us mass claiming?

SCUM CARE ABOUT TOWN MASS CLAIMING
1.
2.
3…

SCUM DON’T CARE ABOUT TOWN MASS CLAIMING
1.
2.
3…

I think scum care.

[heartthrob24909]

heart only inceracting ith peple he knows irl....is bad...is not town!heart

Best I could do so far during a phase where I wasn't that available, and there was a lot more to catch up on than I'm used to.

<snip>
I'm offended that you think scum!me would be that lazy!

I don't see how these contradict. Town!me is the one being lazy...

[sweetandcool]

As scum, I've never survived past D1.

Food for thought for my detractors.

You are wasting your time on me (:

[BunnyGo]

The alcohol has spoken.

Perhaps not as well...i've had little to drink in the last 6 months.

But like the Athenians of old, sober me will assess the wisdom of the wine in the morning.

godo night!

[heartthrob24909]

The stuff about inconsistency looks like something I'd expect scum to say as an excuse to vote out townies. How do you feel about your friend ghosting the game and then reappearing to vote out obvtown?

It was definitely an unexpected opening move. Didn't present her favorably at all but I think what's worse is that she didn't stick around to see the result.

since she hasn't said "hello" to us, what did you expect her to do?

Anything but tie it

[Frogsterking]

What don't you like?

The stuff about inconsistency looks like something I'd expect scum to say as an excuse to vote out townies. How do you feel about your friend ghosting the game and then reappearing to vote out obvtown?

It was definitely an unexpected opening move. Didn't present her favorably at all but I think what's worse is that she didn't stick around to see the result.

Are you willing to kill her tomorrow?

[heartthrob24909]

The stuff about inconsistency looks like something I'd expect scum to say as an excuse to vote out townies. How do you feel about your friend ghosting the game and then reappearing to vote out obvtown?

It was definitely an unexpected opening move. Didn't present her favorably at all but I think what's worse is that she didn't stick around to see the result.

Are you willing to kill her tomorrow?

Yes. I mean, I hope she shows up first to provide some takes and give us some more clarity on her decision making.

[Frogsterking]

It was definitely an unexpected opening move. Didn't present her favorably at all but I think what's worse is that she didn't stick around to see the result.

Are you willing to kill her tomorrow?

Yes. I mean, I hope she shows up first to provide some takes and give us some more clarity on her decision making.

Are you disappointed that your friend probably rolled scum?

[BunnyGo]

It was definitely an unexpected opening move. Didn't present her favorably at all but I think what's worse is that she didn't stick around to see the result.

since she hasn't said "hello" to us, what did you expect her to do?

Anything but tie it

Wait. Why? Why would you expect her to understand that nuance as a noob who showed up last minut?

[heartthrob24909]

Best I could do so far during a phase where I wasn't that available, and there was a lot more to catch up on than I'm used to.

<snip>
I'm offended that you think scum!me would be that lazy!

Town!heart knows a bunch of these players by now. Has been fooled by worcej. Tangod with Jimbo.

You know who they are. Why aren't you interacting with htem?

Honestly, the timing of when my reading switched from a catch-up readthrough (where it felt like I was observing a bunch of fights that I didn't want to insert myself into) to periodically checking the most current events happened to coincide with your re-entry into the world of speaking. It was easy for me to chime in live and also talk to someone familiar to me.

It was important for me to interact with babyspice when she showed up and hopefully give her an easier entrypoint into the discourse than from someone she didn't know.

I was not reading a lot of the thread live. I've observed you and BK3K in the most games out of anyone here and in the short times I was available D1 those felt like meaningful contributions I could make. Maybe you won't love this answer but oh well.

[heartthrob24909]

since she hasn't said "hello" to us, what did you expect her to do?

Anything but tie it

Wait. Why? Why would you expect her to understand that nuance as a noob who showed up last minut?

It was unexpected in a cosmic sort of way... WE all know the implications of the tie, maybe she doesn't, but it still was not what I would have *expected* to see in that moment.

How could I have remotely expected that her entry post would essentially be to tie the vote within the final minute of the day

[heartthrob24909]

Are you willing to kill her tomorrow?

Yes. I mean, I hope she shows up first to provide some takes and give us some more clarity on her decision making.

Are you disappointed that your friend probably rolled scum?

No because if she did, maybe it will be an exciting first game for her.

[Frogsterking]

@Heartthrob, is BK3B tone and activity level they've shown here on-brand for them as town? Is there anything else I should know about them?

Yes. I mean, I hope she shows up first to provide some takes and give us some more clarity on her decision making.

Are you disappointed that your friend probably rolled scum?

No because if she did, maybe it will be an exciting first game for her.

That's a great answer.

@BK3B:

No. I expect lots of people to do so. I might. I haven't really given it any thought yet.

The most important thing to consider, in my opinion, is that we can’t draw any meaningful clues from our returns without cross-referencing to other claimed returns. If we don’t claim, we basically throw away our powers. I suspect scum will not throw away theirs!

I think that if we don’t all claim, we make it harder for ALL town players to fully understand the meaning of their powers (consider getting a “town” return in isolation; who are you and what do you know?). Whoever does not claim actively deprives others of the fun of their role - and deprives themselves of the chance to learn valuable information and contribute to a shared Team Town victory!

Also, given that scum aren’t all vanilla goons, we are extra pooched if we don’t try to use our powers!

Food town. Flavor town?

Are you saying that you have solid townreads on both chaqa and foodcoats, BK3B?

[BK3K]

@Heartthrob, is BK3B tone and activity level they've shown here on-brand for them as town? Is there anything else I should know about them?

Are you disappointed that your friend probably rolled scum?

No because if she did, maybe it will be an exciting first game for her.

That's a great answer.

@BK3B:

The most important thing to consider, in my opinion, is that we can’t draw any meaningful clues from our returns without cross-referencing to other claimed returns. If we don’t claim, we basically throw away our powers. I suspect scum will not throw away theirs!

I think that if we don’t all claim, we make it harder for ALL town players to fully understand the meaning of their powers (consider getting a “town” return in isolation; who are you and what do you know?). Whoever does not claim actively deprives others of the fun of their role - and deprives themselves of the chance to learn valuable information and contribute to a shared Team Town victory!

Also, given that scum aren’t all vanilla goons, we are extra pooched if we don’t try to use our powers!

Food town. Flavor town?

Are you saying that you have solid townreads on both chaqa and foodcoats, BK3B?

I just liked this post by food. No opinion on chaqa other than all the discussion about his opening posts meaning anything seemed flimsy to me.

[Frogsterking]

Thanks, BK3K

@Hamilton Brian

Wait a minute:

Why did there happen to be a discrep with the bot and our final numbers?

Looking at the final vote count that Monarch posted, lfischl is on Just but the bot shows their vote on BK3K. What's up with that?

JustAGuyNamedWill (7) Diplomacy&Warfare, foodcoats, bozotheclown, Hamilton Brian, brainbomb, babyspice666, lfischl
BK3K (5) Frogsterking, BobMcBob, Kakarroto, JustAGuyNamedWill
sweetandcool (2) damo666, BunnyGo
lfischl (3) Chaqa, heartthrob24909, Jamiet99uk
Kakarroto (1) Nephthys
Diplomacy&Warfare (1) BK3K
Frogsterking (1) sweetandcool
Chaqa (1) worcej

Where are you going with this?