M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

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TheFlyingBoat
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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1761 Post by TheFlyingBoat » Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:50 am

DeathLlama8 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:03 pm
TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:36 am
I want to first start of by saying I don't buy Kakarrotto's claim at all.

What the hell was the crumb nonsense? If I were him I would just claim to not crumb rather than claiming "let's hunt the witches guys!!!!!" or whatever it was he said was his crumb. Like do we seriously believe anyone claims "hey guys let's hunt scum" is an actual crumb? Part of me thinks it may be so terrible that no scum would come up with it, but given the guy has played before AND tried to crumb before I find me that very unlikely. Given that there is no role block in this game though, maybe we just let him live until a day before kilo and let him eat an NK or see if we can get something useful out of him after a few days of watching.
TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:27 pm
In terms of expected value of D1 votes, which tend to be popularity contests no matter the site (barring completely catastrophic scum play), a vote for lfischlI is probably the highest expected value vote given the downside of being wrong is far lower than the downside of being wrong on anyone else and the odds of hitting scum are about equal. I especially like it since it was the counterwagon to killing you, the supposed tracker.
@TFB - can you walk us through how your read on kakarroto evolved from start of N1 to whenever damo exposed him D2?
Sure, great question. N1 I think Kak is full of shit. Crumbing is a work of art and it goes without saying that it ought to be done so that it is somewhat hidden until the author reveals it when necessary so that they are safe from NKs but can also bolster their credibility when they claim to save themselves from a DK or to lead town gloriously to victory. The moment he said let's hunt the witches was his crumb I no joke started laughing irl at the ridiculousness of it all.

At the start of Day 2 I admittedly got a little flippant with him for asking that question which really wasn't that bad but at the time due to some other frustrations (Texas choking in back to back weeks in college football) I did not display my usual patience and my bar for what I considered a non stupid question was very high. I therefore decided to toss in a pithy passive-aggressive comment indicating that the supposed tracker should be happy I killed a useless guy instead of him to increase the town's probability of victory and is stupid to ask whether I'm happy lfischl died instead of him when he is claiming to be the tracker because if he were actually the tracker it should be fairly obvious that I would be incredibly happy not to have killed him.

I continued to view him as scum and generally operated off of that principle though admitted the possibility that I could be wrong hence why I wanted to wait until the day before milo/kilo to kill him to let the real tracker do stuff for a couple days then counter claim and publish his tracks as explained in my argument with ghug.
TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:52 pm
ghug wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:25 pm
TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:23 pm


What was your tracker realization? Is it somehow more powerful than I think it is? Even if the tracker hits scum there is still only a 1 in 3 chance we hit them and the chance for mistakes is definitely room for false positives and false negatives.
If Kak's scum, he's going to perform the kills, and the tracker already knows he's scum, which means there's no longer any use to the role.
So is your thought we kill Kak early and free up the tracker to take more shots again? I personally thought earlier the best time to kill him was the day before kilo where we order the tracker to counterclaim and provide all reads, so if we're wrong we can kill the other guy and if there is no counterclaim we trust Kak, order him to dump all his reads, and thank him for his service when mafia invariably kills him that night.
If you look at the way I phrased my plan, I was willing to take any counter over Kak's on account of how little I trusted it and as such wanted to kill Kak before the counterclaimer and treated the possibility that we might be wrong as something to be prepared for but not something to be overly concerned about because I viewed it as unlikely. By the time I saw damo's post it was already night 2 so I knew Kak was confirmed scum and that therefore damo was pretty much the lost sibling so I didn't get to actually have to decide whether I trusted damo or Kak over the other, but that being said I think it was fairly certain I come down on damo's side (with the caveat it is obviously incredibly self serving to say that now ofc).

The tl;dr is from the moment he showed his "crumb" I thought he was scum and had a plan on how and when I wanted him day killed. The timeline for Kak's death was accelerated by a claim. My view stayed roughly the same over the time I was checking the thread, namely that Kak lied and did so I'm a pretty poor gain, whether you look at my N1 message, my D2 rejoinder, and most of all my back and forth with ghug.
1

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1762 Post by rdrivera2005 » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:47 am

DeathLlama8 wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 7:15 am
rdrivera2005 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:15 pm
RIP Ghug, this time I was reading you right.

@Durga - Why Jamiet?
@rdrivera - tbc, does this mean you were correctly reading Ghug as town, or as PR?
As town. I tunneled Ghug hard last mini game when we were both town.

I don't PR hunt as town (and I suck at it as scum, people can tell you).

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1763 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:48 am

DeathLlama8 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:42 pm
hm I actually think the entire Kakarroto wagon D1 might just be town now? Bunny hasn't done anything alignment indicative IMO and Vecna voting scum Kakarroto without catching up, sort of making him a wagon while also meaning he'd get no credit if it went through seems good. idt Doom busses there either.

reread pool is {tfb, rdrivera, jamiet, sabi} when I have time. Jamie posted 45 times yesterday apparently and somehow none of them left any impression on me
Except you are giving him credit, right there.

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1764 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:49 am

Durga wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 9:53 pm
hmmmmmmm kinda weird i voted for jamie and he didn't say anything about it. he was like SO ANGRY last game when ppl voted him
My state of inebriation / sobriety has an unfortunately high level of influence in these matters. :(

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1765 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:53 am

DeathLlama8 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:38 pm
TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:24 am
My towncore is Damo, Doom, Death, and ghug. Sabi seems town enough but that may be because I am more willing to write weird things they do off given their play last game and their general newness.

That leaves the PoE as Durga, Bunnicula (my Bunny/Vecna combo), Jamie, and rdr.

If I had to rank I go Jamie, Durga, rdr, and Bunnicula
why do you feel this way about any of these people
I asked him about this on page 76 and he never gave me an answer.

Hmmm.

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1766 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:54 am

TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:42 pm
DeathLlama8 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:38 pm
TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:24 am
My towncore is Damo, Doom, Death, and ghug. Sabi seems town enough but that may be because I am more willing to write weird things they do off given their play last game and their general newness.

That leaves the PoE as Durga, Bunnicula (my Bunny/Vecna combo), Jamie, and rdr.

If I had to rank I go Jamie, Durga, rdr, and Bunnicula
why do you feel this way about any of these people
Easy, your vote and Doom's vote on Kak that made it a tie and then put him in the lead with 15 mins to go seem incredibly unlikely to come from mafia. Damo is the lost sibling, ghug's active posting and mechanical analysis seemed incredibly townie.
That's half the answer.

Why do you rank your scumreads in the order that you do?

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1767 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:55 am

damo666 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:44 pm
At the moment I'm gonna follow ghug's advice and ##vote Jamie
I'm sure Ghug told you to vote for kg99uk, not me.

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1768 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Oct 21, 2021 9:58 am

TheFlyingBoat wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 11:41 pm
DeathLlama8 wrote:
Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:44 pm
cool thanks
wb the PoE ranking?
Sure, the ranking is more a product of meta analysis and less of hard behavior, something I hope to supplement during my reread and in fact I already do feel somewhat less confident in it. I liked some of Bunny's earlier posts but points about him being a replacement and therefore easily able to play as town since that's how he basically thought about it before he replaced was convincing to me that I shouldn't take that as town indicative as one would initially think. Further some of his later posts were far less appealing and that was true even before ghug's death. Bunnicula is now pretty higher on my list.

Rdr is someone who's posting I generally like but do find to be hard to read for certain. He hasn't done anything I would consider obv town and is therefore in the PoE. He was on the back side of it earlier just in front of bunny because while he hadn't obv towned he had posted well but not that bunny is higher up on my list, rdr is now at the bottom of it. The fact he didn't really fight it at all and understood why he was on the list was nice.

Durga has seemed off this game and hasn't been asking the tough questions I saw her ask last time and has been shitposting interspersed with a little bit of righteous indignation for not being seen as obv town yet.

As for Jamie, he's been far too nice and unabrasive. Someone told me in the last game Jamie fakes being nice when he's scum where he feels more comfortable being an asshole when he's town.
Well here we go.

Disagree with you on Durga, she seems to be questioning people pretty sincerely.

Disagree with you on me, and can I just say once more for the record, that I am sick and tired of being punished for trying to be nice and polite? You are all literally giving me an incentive to be an emotional, unpleasant asshole and it's really quite unpleasant of you. I can't always keep my emotions in check but it's pretty toxic that whenever I do, you all immediately scumread me for it?

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1769 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:01 am

Durga wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:10 am
ghug wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:09 pm
Past games have taught me that:
a) Jamie rarely provides value to the town
b) Jamie often provides value to his team as scum
c) Jamie will have an explosion of toxicity at some point

Even if you don't want to get into c, a and b are perfectly adequate reasons to kill him right now in absence of other reads.
yknow ghug said some rude ass shit about jamie and jamie didn't challenge him into a death battle
Fatigue.

He does it every game regardless of anything. I don't have the energy to re-create the same brawl over and over and over and over and over again.

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1770 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:02 am

Durga wrote:
Thu Oct 21, 2021 1:13 am
Kakarroto wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:15 pm
ghug wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:09 pm
Past games have taught me that:
a) Jamie rarely provides value to the town
b) Jamie often provides value to his team as scum
c) Jamie will have an explosion of toxicity at some point

Even if you don't want to get into c, a and b are perfectly adequate reasons to kill him right now in absence of other reads.
Past games have taught me that:
a) Jamie often gets side tracked by other town members and his opinions disregarded, thus is barred to provide true value
b) Jamie loses when he is mafia anyway
c) it's only fair to give him a fair chance if he tries his best and don't condemn before any foul act. Maybe it's only subconsciously but from what I've seen that's still there.
does scum!kaka talk about scum!jamie like this. gaaaaaah maybe
I felt he was trying to buddy me.

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1771 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Oct 21, 2021 10:06 am

##Vote TheFlyingBoat

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1772 Post by BunnyGo » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:07 am

Sorry, ghug pissed me off so I left. Then the night got away from me.

I don't understand this game. I'll pat myself on picking up on whatever that ghug wasn't VT, but got the alignment wrong. I really don't understand why scum killed him though. Even if they were sure he was a PR, killing damo is the only way to keep us from having more clears. They also should know I was not going to let go of that bone on ghug easily. I don't get it from mech or psych point of view.

Oh, and @DeathLlama you were asking about how I was reading things from day 1? It was just feelings.

I've noticed that I have a fairly decent ability to read people if I don't try to. If I play RPS games (like gunboat/poker/fighting games/criminal investigations/etc.) I'm quite good at getting a bead on people. This ability goes away completely if I try to think about it. If I say to myself consciously "hmm...I think they're doing this, so I'll do that" then I'm atrociously bad at it.

I finally put together that self-knowledge with my town play in mafia not being as good as I'd like as realizing that when I hunt and then try to articulate and convince myself and others of my reads, I'm really bad at it. Maybe I was getting in my own way by justifying things as opposed to just feeling things.

I was enjoying subbing in this game because I had the chance to not justify things at all and just say what I was thinking to myself (and the GT). My initial notes were just "snowy town", "ghug scum", "wait maybe snowy scum" that's it.


Ok...time to catch up, and reread D1.

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1773 Post by BunnyGo » Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:23 am

Final vote:

lfischl (lurker) (5) TheFlyingBoat damo666 Durga DeathLlama8 ghug
damo666 (PR) (3) Kakarroto snowy801 Doom427
snowy801 (active) (2) rdrivera2005 Jamiet99uk
Kakarroto (scum) (1) Vecna/Bunny


Vote status prior to "claim":

Kakarroto (scum) (5) Vecna/Bunny ghug Doom427 DeathLlama8 snowy801
lfischl (lurker) (3) TheFlyingBoat damo666 Durga
snowy801 (active) (2) rdrivera2005 Jamiet99uk
damo666 (PR) (1) Kakarroto

Ok, time to reread and ponder this.
2

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1774 Post by BunnyGo » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:16 pm

Kakarroto wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:07 pm
Wait, is priest a good role in this setting? Which priest?
WTF is this?

kaka states that policy [killing] ghug is a good idea because ghug will "claim priest", then responds to himself about the priest role. What is he doing? And nobody responded to his weird bait either. Snowy even said "we have a tracker?" as a near cross post with this. Sadly none of this says anything because both are dead, but DeathLlama was there and didn't respond. Still means nothing. Just weird.

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1775 Post by BunnyGo » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:18 pm

Kakarroto wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:11 pm
DeathLlama8 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:06 pm
hi everyone
first person to call it "tracker" instead of "hexenjäger" is getting hammered
Hexenjäger, Hexenjäger
such im jeden Eck!
Hexenjäger, Hexenjäger
die Hexen müssen weck!
Kaka does respond to DeathLlama here, and then also gives a " :? " to DeathLlama's shitpost claiming he was going to lurk.

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1776 Post by BunnyGo » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:31 pm

Kakarroto wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:00 pm
snowy801 wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:56 pm
Kakarroto wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:55 pm


Shhh, he still needs to get over the fact that he rolled witch with me.
Poor guy
Hah, wait until you hear who's third, then you can really pity him.
So at this point Kaka has "claimed" that ghug is his teammate (after snowy has "claimed" that damo is his teammate, and damo has "claimed" that kaka is his too--but only kaka's "claim" is worth considering here). This comes in a spate of shitposting dominated almost entirely by our 4 known characters. And the GM...

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1777 Post by BunnyGo » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:32 pm

snowy801 wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:02 am
Boat man promised me shitposting and totally ghosted me
First thought about unknown character.

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1778 Post by BunnyGo » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:46 pm

Kakarroto wrote:
Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:53 pm
Hmm, thinking about it, Jug is correct. Gets much better out of your mouth.

Jug Jug Jug Jug Jug.
I'm a little surprised Jamie didn't respond to this when he entered. I remembered he complained about being told he hadn't thrown a fit (that seems normal), but I'd expect him to weigh in on his shared name with ghug.

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1779 Post by BunnyGo » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:51 pm

Doom427 wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:05 pm
snowy801 wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:33 pm
Doom, what's your initial take on ghug's repeated and pointed complaints that there's not enough content being posted?
Hmmm, what, me? I just woke up :(

Uhhhh ....

I mean, he probably likes Mafia, and thinks it's more fun when people talk???????

Theoritcally it helps towns, tho imo it's just something you want to do when you're playing a game and want other people to also play it ...?

Unless the true answer is that complaining about people not posting enough is the secret witch code to make them all do something EVIL
Doom has felt different all game than last one. But I was originally chalking it up to feeling more comfortable in the group after the post game videogame chat. She was much more terse last game when directly addressed. See:
Doom427 wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:39 pm
BunnyGo wrote:
Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:32 pm
Good morning Doom and Chaqa.
Can't a girl have a minute to catch up on her reading?

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Re: M1019 – Once Upon A Time… [GAME THREAD] [HIDDEN]

#1780 Post by BunnyGo » Thu Oct 21, 2021 12:56 pm

Kakarroto wrote:
Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:47 pm
Also Durga, ghug and I talked before in the chat and we would like to have another one voted out today. So would you please comply and vote either uber or snowy? (They couldn't come to a common ground so please choose one of them).
This is where kaka "claims" his whole team. Not sure what to make of it, as I don't know kaka, but most scum players have trouble choosing all town or all scum as their claimed teammates.

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