webdiplomacy.net

My understanding when joining the game was that there would be a strict prohibition on discussions of player identity in order to preserve its integrity.

If I were in this game I'd want to play on, even if just to draw six ways. People shouldn't be able to throw games like this just to try and preserve their precious ranking. You all knew there was likely going to be unpleasant drama. How do you win in spite of the drama?

Gandalfthegrey wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 2:28 am

My understanding when joining the game was that there would be a strict prohibition on discussions of player identity in order to preserve its integrity.

Did anybody really think that Ginge86 was a top-notch player who needed to be feared, though? Simply trying to understand who your opponents are and what their playstyle is like doesn't harm the integrity of the game, in my opinion.

Did anybody really think that Ginge86 was a top-notch player who needed to be feared, though?

I have no clue how good Ginge86 is and don't particularly care. Fear is not the only motivator for targeting someone in Diplomacy though.

Simply trying to understand who your opponents are and what their playstyle is like doesn't harm the integrity of the game, in my opinion.

This is pretty clearly not what happened, and I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest that it did.

Figuring out Ginge86's identity and using it as a means of predicting his moves going forward is one thing, using his identity as a means of rallying players against him in negotiations (whether or not the information played a role in their decision to accept the proposals in question) is quite another.

Do other players think that I had an obligation here to tell another player not to talk about player identities? I feel like managing relationships is a big part of press diplomacy, and agreeing with other players' gripes, grudges, and impressions of each other is part of that. I certainly didn't discourage Italy from attacking Austria but also didn't try to rally other players into a "get the goat" alliance.

I guess I wouldn't have thought there was anything wrong, in another game, with capitalizing if another player told me that they thought a third player was someone they knew and disliked from a previous game, and that they wanted to attack them as a result. I'd feel like it was totally fine to encourage them to do so if I thought it would help me. In terms of the special "rules" in this game, I also wouldn't feel like I needed to correct another player who talked about arranging for a draw.

Theodoric wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 6:23 am

Do other players think that I had an obligation here to tell another player not to talk about player identities? I feel like managing relationships is a big part of press diplomacy, and agreeing with other players' gripes, grudges, and impressions of each other is part of that. I certainly didn't discourage Italy from attacking Austria but also didn't try to rally other players into a "get the goat" alliance.

I guess I wouldn't have thought there was anything wrong, in another game, with capitalizing if another player told me that they thought a third player was someone they knew and disliked from a previous game, and that they wanted to attack them as a result. I'd feel like it was totally fine to encourage them to do so if I thought it would help me. In terms of the special "rules" in this game, I also wouldn't feel like I needed to correct another player who talked about arranging for a draw.

I don't think you have an obligation to harm your position because somebody else is acting inappropriately.

Additionally, you cannot make deals based on any factors outside of the game.

This is a site rule, not a special rule of this game, though it was strongly reinforced and expanded upon in the invitation.

Talking about arranging for a draw wouldn't even violate the special rules outlined in the invitation (you were always allowed to draw if you didn't feel you had a solo opportunity available - and discussing a draw is not the same thing as making a draw), so these two things are not comparable.

Thanks Gandalf.
Nice to know at least some of the players invited had some morals.
It appears to me that others only joined with the intent of ruining the game for the others.
I cannot wit to see who Italy is, although I already have my suspicions. As it appears they were the ring leader here.

In fact, to answer everyone individually

Gandalf - Thanks for joining my game, it would have been fun to play you in a fair game

Doug - Thanks for joining my game, it would have been fun to play you in a fair game

Theodoric - Thanks for at least attempting to play fairly. What I do not understand is why you have such a hard time admitting the rules were broken. Seems weird

JECowardE - I am clearly renting a room in your brain right now. Do you not feel embarrassed that you were not even in the game, yet this seems to have become an obsession of yours. Kind of sad really. Get a life!

Aristocrat - I wouldn't bother reporting anything on this site to the mods, not unless waiting a year for a response is something to aim for.

All other players in the game - I apologise that Italy ruined the game for everyone. They are clearly a rubbish player, if they felt the need to resort to such cheap tactics. It is a shame nobody shut this down but in not doing so, this game became unplayable for me. Once we know who it is, I will name and shame them here.

Yes, that's why you wanted the game cancelled, because you desperately wanted to know who Italy was. That's totally logical. Everyone believes your motivations.

JECE wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:23 pm

Yes, that's why you wanted the game cancelled, because you desperately wanted to know who Italy was. That's totally logical. Everyone believes your motivations.

No. I do not want to go on a date with you. I am a happily married man. You really should move on now JECowardE. I know that I am one of a kind but I am sure there is someone out there for you.

Gandalfthegrey wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 4:06 am

Did anybody really think that Ginge86 was a top-notch player who needed to be feared, though?

I have no clue how good Ginge86 is and don't particularly care. Fear is not the only motivator for targeting someone in Diplomacy though.

Simply trying to understand who your opponents are and what their playstyle is like doesn't harm the integrity of the game, in my opinion.

This is pretty clearly not what happened, and I'm not sure why you're trying to suggest that it did.

Figuring out Ginge86's identity and using it as a means of predicting his moves going forward is one thing, using his identity as a means of rallying players against him in negotiations (whether or not the information played a role in their decision to accept the proposals in question) is quite another.

Fair enough. I wasn't privy to Italian press and you probably were. But as I mentioned on the first page, I have been targeted before in a much more high profile anonymous game and didn't feel the urge to rage quit. I viewed it as an extra challenge to try and overcome, and fought on for three and a half real-life years. That was a tournament game. This was a silly joke of a game. Ginge86 just looks like a quitter to me, unwilling or (more likely) unable to prove his supposedly stellar diplomatic skills.

Ginge86 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:30 pm

JECE wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:23 pm

Yes, that's why you wanted the game cancelled, because you desperately wanted to know who Italy was. That's totally logical. Everyone believes your motivations.

No. I do not want to go on a date with you. I am a happily married man. You really should move on now JECowardE. I know that I am one of a kind but I am sure there is someone out there for you.

Don't get caught!

JECE wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:41 pm

Ginge86 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:30 pm

JECE wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 1:23 pm

Yes, that's why you wanted the game cancelled, because you desperately wanted to know who Italy was. That's totally logical. Everyone believes your motivations.

No. I do not want to go on a date with you. I am a happily married man. You really should move on now JECowardE. I know that I am one of a kind but I am sure there is someone out there for you.

Don't get caught!

If this is your way of asking for nudes, the answer is NO!

England - Doom
Turkey - Theodoric
Austria - Me
Germany - Jamie
Russia - Doug

That only leaves 2 possible bad actors. I will assume from comments made it was not Gandalf, so that leaves...........

FERDACK - This is my guess at the worm that played Italy and could not stick to the rules. I believe this is who you should all thank for a ruined game. NEVER, EVER, invite this player to one of your games, they have 0 honour.

Remind me, how do you mute someone from you forum feed again?

Moderator hat on...
Sorry this has gone on too long, folk.

It is against site rules to make public accusations of cheating.

DO NOT DISCUSS THIS any more.

Silences will ensue.

Ginge86 wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 2:17 pm

This is my guess at the worm that played Italy and could not stick to the rules. I believe this is who you should all thank for a ruined game. NEVER, EVER, invite this player to one of your games, they have 0 honour.

Lol, speaking about honor when you missed your order in your own game and rage quit because you got teamed.

Here's my perspective of the game: I was quite willing to form an alliance with you from the start, since I/A makes perfect sense, but there were two factors that made me reconsider - your repeated requests of bouncing in Trieste in S1901, and the lie about Germany being the one who suggested the Central Triple, when you were in fact the one who brought it up to him first. I didn't appreciate being lied to so early in the game, and based off that, I had a feeling you might use the Trieste bounce against me if I did follow though with it.

I didn't consider you to be a very reliable ally, with your constant insistence that I play a "Lapanto" , and sending me messages about Russia getting into Serbia while his army was in Galicia. These are such low-level mistakes, I wonder how you made it so far without knowing how to spell Lepanto correctly or the adjacencies of the provinces. So I found better company in Russia and Turkey, knowing attacking you would benefit us all, for strategic reasons, not for who you are. Revealing your identify was merely a diplomatic tool to give people an extra nudge.

Shifting the blame to me is rather pointless, isn't it. The game was ruined because you threw a massive temper tantrum the moment things went south, like in so many of your other games, their global chats turned into drama-filled pits of vitriol. My honor and reputation when it comes to press matters little to me, for as I mentioned when I first signed up for this game, I rarely play press, my games are mostly gunboat. Seriously, grow a pair and learn to deal with difficult situations dude.

dargorygel wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 3:33 pm

DO NOT DISCUSS THIS any more.

Silences will ensue.

Ahh, didn't see this post in time when I wrote my long response. My apologies.

Ferdack wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 3:47 pm

dargorygel wrote: ↑

Thu Aug 10, 2023 3:33 pm

DO NOT DISCUSS THIS any more.

Silences will ensue.

Ahh, didn't see this post in time when I wrote my long response. My apologies.

Cross posting. You're ok.