webdiplomacy.net

THC wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 26, 2023 3:09 pm

As always, diplomacy is the key. There's a distinct lack of diplomacy in many online games, I've found, because everyone's out to do well for themselves rather than stopping others.

And the topic of the thread is about AI play, which may be even less interested in preventing other players from doing well.

DougJoe wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:21 am

Oh, and those games are from PlayDiplomacy, which, AFAIK, doesn't have bots... So those are (theoretically) human-only games. That might make sense that there's such a difference in the percentages. I don't what games the AI bots were trained on here, but it would be interesting to see the difference in Italy play between low/high level players.

That was the question -- are the bots playing differently than humans? So the dataset I looked at was human players. Are you seeing more than 12% or so VEN>TRI in the bot games?

ShipOfTheseus wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 26, 2023 7:03 pm

DougJoe wrote: ↑

Sun Feb 26, 2023 6:21 am

Oh, and those games are from PlayDiplomacy, which, AFAIK, doesn't have bots... So those are (theoretically) human-only games. That might make sense that there's such a difference in the percentages. I don't what games the AI bots were trained on here, but it would be interesting to see the difference in Italy play between low/high level players.

That was the question -- are the bots playing differently than humans? So the dataset I looked at was human players. Are you seeing more than 12% or so VEN>TRI in the bot games?

No. As I thought I said before, I'm seeing Ven-Tri a little *less* than 1 in 8. I see much, much more of Ven->Tyo, Rom->Ven with the bots than with the human data you posted.

"Vastly" higher than 12% openings of an attack on Austria ... says 75%?? which is very different than a typical game. A couple of mods have said in the past that bots programmed to learn ... but they can't be as this is normally such a disastrous opening for Italy (not always - but normally)

Bladerunners wrote: ↑

Thu Mar 02, 2023 12:41 am

"Vastly" higher than 12% openings of an attack on Austria ... says 75%?? which is very different than a typical game. A couple of mods have said in the past that bots programmed to learn ... but they can't be as this is normally such a disastrous opening for Italy (not always - but normally)

How are you coming up with 75%?

The developers made turkey extra powerful as they for some unfathomable reason have Italy attack Austria in the vast majority of games (over 80%) which is unrealistic to how diplomacy normally played both in regular and gunboat

Bladerunners wrote: ↑

Wed May 10, 2023 6:51 am

The developers made turkey extra powerful as they for some unfathomable reason have Italy attack Austria in the vast majority of games (over 80%) which is unrealistic to how diplomacy normally played both in regular and gunboat

I think the data for gunboat games shows that Italy attacking Austria isn't really a bad idea, and might actually be the optimal strategy (at least with almost every Austria opening Alb/Ser/Gal). Which is why bots like to do it so much. In press it is a different story because Austria and Russia can ally but no one seems to be able to make that happen in gunboat.

It seems to me that Italy automatically in bad position by doing so as Turkey and/or Russia profit much faster than Italy can