You can see the previous moves, though - I think that's what he was referring to?
And Bur/Ruh/Kie stops an "army only" attack cold, there's no way to break through Ruh S Kie.
#101 Post by DougJoe » Sat Aug 13, 2022 8:46 pm
You can see the previous moves, though - I think that's what he was referring to?
#102 Post by DougJoe » Sat Aug 13, 2022 10:59 pm
I'd be tempted to move NTH->Bel not necessarily to get Belgium but because that might get Germany into Burgundy (at least based on the previous moves). IRI S ENC, ENC can support into Bel if you want (but don't expect it to work). I would not, however, take a shot at Denmark, as, even if you get in you'll be hard pressed to hold it next spring.Trigfea63 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 13, 2022 5:57 pmA further update on T-0128. Here are the Spring '03 results:
https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large
The good news: I made it to Irish Sea. Now France might have to consider BRE support-hold MAO, and stop hammering the Channel. The bad news: Germany moved DEN-->SKA. He did also support NTH-->BEL again, and moved all of his other armies against France. Austria bounced me in MOS, and managed to lose 3 of his 5 centers on one turn, at least for now. Given the German move to SKA, I have to recalibrate a little. Here are some possibilities for the fall. Fortunately, MOS is vacant, so STP can safely support NWY, and NTH can be useful elsewhere. For one turn at least.
In Scandinavia: STP support-hold NWY, NTH-->DEN? Or STP support-hold NWY, NTH-->BEL, with support from ENG (and hopefully the German A HOL again)?
In the Atlantic: IRI S ENG, ENG S NTH-->BEL? Or IRI-->MAO, ENG-->PIC (both moves to cut support), and NTH-->BEL? NTH-->BEL still needs German support to succeed, but it doesn't need support from ENG (which could be cut). Or ENG-->MAO supported by IRI, NTH-->ENG?
I'm going to mull these options for a day. I welcome your thoughts.
#103 Post by georgefc3 » Sat Aug 13, 2022 11:26 pm
#104 Post by Trigfea63 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:20 am
#105 Post by georgefc3 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:29 pm
I went with those moves. I made my moves, gaining Berlin. I think I can force Munich this next turn. I also did builds, no reason to slow the game down.Trig writes:
Those are good moves. Italy will probably take Spain and Portugal, for 2 builds.
#106 Post by DougJoe » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:08 pm
Getting close to the end! Technically, you can't force Munich without help (Mar->Bur) because Bur/Ruh/Kie can support Mun. Not that France *will*, of course, but it's possible. No risk to you to try, after all, although it takes all four of Tyo,Boh,Sil,Ber to do so.georgefc3 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:29 pmOkay...
I went with those moves. I made my moves, gaining Berlin. I think I can force Munich this next turn. I also did builds, no reason to slow the game down.Trig writes:
Those are good moves. Italy will probably take Spain and Portugal, for 2 builds.
This is the current map:
https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large
General plans for the next turn is to take Munich and cover Moscow.
Looks like if I stab Italy this year I can get the win.
#107 Post by DougJoe » Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:09 pm
DougJoe wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 3:08 pmGetting close to the end! Technically, you can't force Munich without help (Mar->Bur) because Bur/Ruh/Kie can support Mun. Not that France *will*, of course, but it's possible. No risk to you to try, although it takes all four of Tyo,Boh,Sil,Ber to do so.georgefc3 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 2:29 pmOkay...
I went with those moves. I made my moves, gaining Berlin. I think I can force Munich this next turn. I also did builds, no reason to slow the game down.Trig writes:
Those are good moves. Italy will probably take Spain and Portugal, for 2 builds.
This is the current map:
https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large
General plans for the next turn is to take Munich and cover Moscow.
Looks like if I stab Italy this year I can get the win.
#108 Post by Trigfea63 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:31 pm
#109 Post by georgefc3 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 7:29 pm
#110 Post by georgefc3 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:04 pm
#111 Post by DougJoe » Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:05 pm
Seems reasonable.Trigfea63 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 6:31 pmHere is another T-0128 update. The results of the Autumn 1903 moves, retreats, and winter adjustments:
https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameI ... Type=large
I decided to go with Doug's recommendation: don't attack Denmark, hit Belgium as Germany requested. I slightly varied the moves in the Atlantic, ordering ENG-->PIC to cut France's support for BEL, and LVP-->MAO to cut France's support for an attack on ENG. If Germany had supported me into BEL again, I would have captured it. Alas, he switched up his orders this time. The LVP-->MAO order worked: I didn't lose ENG.
I'm glad to see Germany moved back to DEN from SKA, and returned my support-hold order in Scandi (SWE S NWY). Germany also will have noticed that I used 3 of my 5 units to directly attack France, including his requested attack on BEL. The E/G seems to be on.
Elsewhere on the map: Amazingly, Austria lost 4 SCs this year, going from 5 down to 1. Austria is as good as dead. Russia bounced back to 3 SCs (from 2), but is in deep trouble from Italy and Turkey. It looks like an I/T battle is shaping up in Austria and the Ionian. And Turkey is in the driver's seat. Having gained 2 more builds, Turkey is up to 8 SCs. He is a serious threat to solo. That counsels against my attacking Russia in MOS.
Given the seeming alliance with Germany, and given Turkey's rapid growth, it's time to take some risks. There isn't much downside to playing very aggressively against France, and trusting Germany. Losing quickly to a German stab is no worse than losing slowly to a Turkish advance across Europe. (I'm not playing for a "Survive.") Here's what I'm thinking:
ENG-->MAO supported by IRI
NTH-->ENG
NWY-->NTH
STP support-hold MOS
I expect ENG-->MAO will succeed, NTH-->ENG will bounce, and NWY-->NTH will therefore bounce as well. Nonetheless, Germany will see that I'm vacating SCs adjacent to his units, and (hopefully) he should be inspired to reciprocate. France will probably retreat back to POR or SPA, but it's possible he could "forward retreat" to North Atlantic. Regardless, I can't wait any longer if I want to have a shot at a win here.
I will ponder this some more before executing. I welcome your comments.
#112 Post by georgefc3 » Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:42 pm
#113 Post by DougJoe » Sun Aug 14, 2022 11:11 pm
Seems reasonable.georgefc3 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 8:04 pmOk guys.... These are my moves
A Tyr - Mun with three supports
A Lvn - Mos
A Pru S A Ber
A Vie - Tyr with support from Trieste
F Tyr - Wes
Other units hold. Here is the map:
https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large
#114 Post by Trigfea63 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:09 am
You know, I didn't think about it too carefully until you asked the question. But maybe, he expected Italy to order Tyo-->Vie. In which case, his move to Tyo would have worked, and he could then advance to Piedmont for another avenue of attack on France. I can't see any reason he'd want to attack Italy.
True, good point. Maybe the timing isn't quite so compressed. We'll keep an eye on what develops between Italy and Turkey.
#115 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:24 am
Not that you haven't thought of it, but be careful of a retreat to Arm and the possible followup to Sev.georgefc3 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 14, 2022 10:42 pmOk guys.... Is the time to stab?
Current map:
https://webdiplomacy.net/map.php?gameID ... Type=large
Planned moves:
Berlin gets two supports
Tyr - Ven with support from Tri
Vie - Tyr
Tys - Rom
Adr - Apu
Ion - Tun
Con - Smy with one support
The Army in Venice will likely need to disband.
I am at 13 now and will get to 17 this season. I should be able to get Naples next turn. Can I also hold Tunis?
What do you think???
#116 Post by Trigfea63 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:33 am
#117 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:45 am
#118 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:54 am
Post Fall '05 and Winter '05:DougJoe wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:45 amMeanwhile, in a parallel universe, in my game:
Spring 05 results, by power:
Austria took Vienna back at the cost of Budapest. Wouldn't be surprised if he's eliminated this year.
France didn't do much - he protected Bur and abandoned some defense of the boot to take Tunis. The lack of a move to Gascony is good for me. I'm not sure what the move to GoL is about. Doesn't look like he'll get a build this year.
Germany didn't do anything - must have been some bad weinerschnitzel passed around the German forces. Got kicked out of Vienna, not surprising.
Italy lost Tunis but got into Rome and can't lose it this turn. So Italy survives for another year - the more he harasses France the better!
Russia got Budapest, if he's brave he'll play Bud S Gal->Vie hoping Turkey taps Tri (and why wouldn't he?) Otherwise it's just Gal S Vie and a build.
Turkey's getting stronger, he'll get Tri if Russia or Germany goes for Vie. I would not be surprised if he and Italy bounce in Naples, nor would I be surprised if he leaves Austria alone and goes for a convoy to Apulia.
England played a little more conservative and advanced all his fleets forward while moving into Spa and WMS. I won't get a build this year, unfortunately, but that's OK.
Thoughts for Fall '05:
I think I'm going to be positional this turn. France will probably defend Bre as it is vulnerable to the fleets in MAO and ENC... I'll move Spa->Gas to setup for Bre next year, use WMS to support MAO into Spain (sc). Then ENC->MAO, and use NTH to support Wal into ENC... and of course defend StP. The Turk (like in Trig's game) may eventually be an issue but I think I have enough fleets that I could use to at worst keep him bottled up. We'll see. Germany is going to have to defend against Russia sooner or later, and I need to break France down enough before that happens.
#119 Post by Trigfea63 » Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:33 am
That was smart, improving your position in Fall '05. It is substantially stronger. It's also excellent Germany removed his only fleet. I expect you are strong enough now to take on the landlubbers France and Germany at the same time, if you wish. And it would be good if Germany didn't get a build. On the other hand, R/T have something of a mini-jugg going, and Turkey has 4 fleets heading your way. Maybe not the best time to antagonize Germany.DougJoe wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:54 amPost Fall '05 and Winter '05:DougJoe wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:45 amMeanwhile, in a parallel universe, in my game:
Spring 05 results, by power:
Austria took Vienna back at the cost of Budapest. Wouldn't be surprised if he's eliminated this year.
France didn't do much - he protected Bur and abandoned some defense of the boot to take Tunis. The lack of a move to Gascony is good for me. I'm not sure what the move to GoL is about. Doesn't look like he'll get a build this year.
Germany didn't do anything - must have been some bad weinerschnitzel passed around the German forces. Got kicked out of Vienna, not surprising.
Italy lost Tunis but got into Rome and can't lose it this turn. So Italy survives for another year - the more he harasses France the better!
Russia got Budapest, if he's brave he'll play Bud S Gal->Vie hoping Turkey taps Tri (and why wouldn't he?) Otherwise it's just Gal S Vie and a build.
Turkey's getting stronger, he'll get Tri if Russia or Germany goes for Vie. I would not be surprised if he and Italy bounce in Naples, nor would I be surprised if he leaves Austria alone and goes for a convoy to Apulia.
England played a little more conservative and advanced all his fleets forward while moving into Spa and WMS. I won't get a build this year, unfortunately, but that's OK.
Thoughts for Fall '05:
I think I'm going to be positional this turn. France will probably defend Bre as it is vulnerable to the fleets in MAO and ENC... I'll move Spa->Gas to setup for Bre next year, use WMS to support MAO into Spain (sc). Then ENC->MAO, and use NTH to support Wal into ENC... and of course defend StP. The Turk (like in Trig's game) may eventually be an issue but I think I have enough fleets that I could use to at worst keep him bottled up. We'll see. Germany is going to have to defend against Russia sooner or later, and I need to break France down enough before that happens.
All my moves worked just fine.
Italy and Turkey did bounce in Naples, which is good for me.
Turkey got Trieste.
Austria played a defense that made sense and hung on to Vienna.
France force moved into Mar and that allowed Germany to get into Burgundy.
Germany disbanded F Hol (love it)
Russia built A War (no surprise)
Turkey built F Smy (again, no surprise)
Now things get interesting.
#120 Post by DougJoe » Mon Aug 15, 2022 2:13 pm
England could almost always use more army power on the continent.Trigfea63 wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 3:33 amThat was smart, improving your position in Fall '05. It is substantially stronger. It's also excellent Germany removed his only fleet. I expect you are strong enough now to take on the landlubbers France and Germany at the same time, if you wish. And it would be good if Germany didn't get a build. On the other hand, R/T have something of a mini-jugg going, and Turkey has 4 fleets heading your way. Maybe not the best time to antagonize Germany.DougJoe wrote: ↑Mon Aug 15, 2022 12:54 am
Post Fall '05 and Winter '05:
All my moves worked just fine.
Italy and Turkey did bounce in Naples, which is good for me.
Turkey got Trieste.
Austria played a defense that made sense and hung on to Vienna.
France force moved into Mar and that allowed Germany to get into Burgundy.
Germany disbanded F Hol (love it)
Russia built A War (no surprise)
Turkey built F Smy (again, no surprise)
Now things get interesting.
And yet, how else do you get 18 centers as England? It seems in the long run, you have to beat Russia and Turkey to MUN-BER, and you have to secure Tunis before the Turkish armada does. Your fleets are probably adequate for the task. You could really use more army power on the continent.
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