Rulebook Press

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A_Tin_Can
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Re: Rulebook Press

#21 Post by A_Tin_Can » Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:03 pm

If you're pointing to the rulebook as a source of truth, it's worth noting that discussion is not explicitly forbidden in the order writing phase, only in retreats and adjustments.

JECE
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Re: Rulebook Press

#22 Post by JECE » Wed Mar 16, 2022 3:58 am

A_Tin_Can wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 11:03 pm
If you're pointing to the rulebook as a source of truth, it's worth noting that discussion is not explicitly forbidden in the order writing phase, only in retreats and adjustments.
I thought that you had me there for a second, but the rules actually do explicitly forbid discussion during the order writing phase too.

From page 19:
"Diplomacy and other conversation shouldn’t be allowed during the writing and reading of orders, between moves and retreats, during and after retreats, or during adjustments."
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A_Tin_Can
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Re: Rulebook Press

#23 Post by A_Tin_Can » Thu Mar 17, 2022 12:11 am

the rules actually do explicitly forbid discussion during the order writing phase too.
Well, you learn something every day. Today, for me, it's this.
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THC
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Re: Rulebook Press

#24 Post by THC » Thu Mar 17, 2022 8:20 am

JECE wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 4:27 pm
THC wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:57 am
Remembering that, during the Diplomacy phase in FTF Dip, you have to submit your orders is made more difficult by experienced players tying you down in lengthy conversations so that you run out of time.
While this is probably true in most face-to-face games, I think that it is actually against the rules of face-to-face play. The diplomatic phase and the order-writing phase are two separate phases according to the rules of Diplomacy.
This is true of the FTF rules since 2000 and the 4th edition. I think you'll find that it isn't necessarily the case in an FTF tournament, though. Just as different Dip sites have their own rules, different tournaments will have their own rules and the separation of a Diplomacy phase and an Order Writing phase is new enough that this isn't always the practice.

Still it's a bit of a side issue as it's never going to be the case Online that these two phases are separated. Given extended deadlines it just isn't necessary. The only application it may have is in games with commonly applied FTF deadlines.
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GracchusBabeuf
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Re: Rulebook Press

#25 Post by GracchusBabeuf » Sun Mar 20, 2022 3:50 am

THC wrote:
Tue Mar 15, 2022 12:57 am
fourofswords wrote:
Fri Mar 04, 2022 8:05 am
In ftf, one must think very quickly, negotiate quickly, and there is a lot more honest play and honest mistakes. The deceitful have less time to work their magic on newbies. ftf is TONS more fun. Short deadlines and rulebook press make online diplomacy a tiny bit more like ftf. I like rulebook press. If you can't think for yourself, online Diplomacy is for you!
Hmm. This isn't something I'd agree with at all. Diplopups have less time to think for themselves, I'd say. The number of times I've seen novices to FTF competition Diplomacy crash and burn simply because they're not experienced in making quick decisions and because they're lead astray by the more experienced players. If you've never seen an experienced Dipmeister hurrying a novice into a conversation and befuddling them into simply trailing along with their tails wagging uncertainly, you've not really seen a Dipmeister at work.

On the other hand, Online play rewards those who can think for themselves. Yes, Dipmeisters are still able to nudge the Pups the way they want them to go, of course, and they do have longer to encourage that. But the chance to sit back and think again that comes with extended deadline play - of any kind - means that you're less likely to become a Dipbitch.

Richard Sharp thought extended deadline play was better than FTF. He enjoyed Postal Dip because, he claimed, there were less mistakes and better quality play because players had more time to consider their moves.

For me, the difference is that, in FTF play, you have to make decisions quickly, and persuade others to come along with you quickly. The only advantage that you have in doing this over Online play is in being able to read body language. And the downside of having a lot of time to consider moves in Online play is that you can end up multiple-guessing yourself and persuading yourself out of the right moves.

Perhaps Andrew Goff is closer to the truth, though. He said that the main issue Online players have is getting their orders in. Remembering that, during the Diplomacy phase in FTF Dip, you have to submit your orders is made more difficult by experienced players tying you down in lengthy conversations so that you run out of time. Not a common issue with Online play (although losing track of deadlines does happen).
The dog analogy had me in stitches. It was a great was of illustrating this point.

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