Sealion against France

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belhilly
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Sealion against France

#1 Post by belhilly » Tue Jan 04, 2022 8:53 pm

Is there a blitzkrieg way for England and Germany to take down France?

If F/G team up against E, E can be out by 1903, even if E is on their guard. (Sealion).

If F/E team up against G, G can be out very quickly, even if they're on their guard. (I don't have a specific moveset in mind, but Germany is vulnerable to fleets, and E could bounce G out of Denmark or Holland in 01.)

But if G/E team up against F, it seems possible or even likely that F can hold 5 supply centres past 1904.

I think the only way around this is some serious diplomatic misdirection, making F think they have a strong ally in E or G. I'm all for diplomatic misdirection -- but on top of that, is there any moveset that a G/E alliance can use to weaken France quickly and reliably? I don't see one.

England can open to the channel, but then they need to guess France's next move or it doesn't pay off. Even if they take Brest in 02, France can usually take it back. Germany opening to Burgundy doesn't get you much either, since it usually bounces and the F/G border stalemates by the end of 02.

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JECE
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Re: Sealion against France

#2 Post by JECE » Tue Jan 04, 2022 10:16 pm

Yes, I'd say so. If Italy or Russia don't intervene, France could fall fast.

See "The Library of Diplomacy Openings" and the "Opening Strategy" section of the Diplomacy-Archive.

Remember that the Mid is also vulnerable in '01, and that Mun can also open to Ruh in Spring '01. England can move fleets west and still build a third fleet in '01 with a Fall '01 convoy into Bel supported by Germany, all this while Germany has a second army in Mun tapping Bur.
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Lord Farquard
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Re: Sealion against France

#3 Post by Lord Farquard » Thu Jan 06, 2022 4:29 am

I'd even argue that it all depends on how many neighbors are against them.

England (or Germany) can survive being the odd man out in the west if they can get Russia to work with them. They can hold out for a very long time with clever tactics.

If Russia joins against the odd man out, it's lights out pretty quick.

If Italy joins in the fray against France, France will collapse rather quickly.

Pretty much any nation will collapse if they get ganged up on 3 of their neighbors. How swiftly a nation collapses depends more on the Diplomacy than on the Tactics.
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