Soloing as Italy

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swordsman3003
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Soloing as Italy

#1 Post by swordsman3003 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 10:55 pm

In my opinion, this is a super interesting topic. If you're into audio content, you might enjoy the Diplomacy Dojo's take on it.

I'm out here saying how much I like to play Italy at least once a year, so might as well get started for 2021...

It's also a good opportunity to discuss the topic on the forum here!
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Nephthys
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#2 Post by Nephthys » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:26 am

Personally I reckon Italy is by far my favourite power, whether in press or gunboat.

It has a naturally a strong position with easy access to both fleets and armies. You have three powers with which to easily attack yet none of them can easily attack you and the lepanto gives you a positional advantage over Austria.

There's also something satisfying about the Pie/Ven/ION -> Trieste/Tyr/Tun opening that I just love. Even if it isn't the best in terms of strategy.
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Sodium Telluride
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#3 Post by Sodium Telluride » Tue Jan 05, 2021 1:58 pm

I love Italy too. My favorite opening is a convoy to Greece (If Turkey supports you) just because I've always found that whoever controls Greece will control the Balkans. And if you can grab Trieste early on, it makes the start even better. The only problem with it is that it will almost never work succesfully.

charlbaker
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#4 Post by charlbaker » Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:36 pm

One great thing about Italy if you're playing press is that every single country has a reason to talk to you because of your central location. It's entirely possible that Britain and Turkey will go a game without messaging each other once. Within reason, Italy will brush up with every single country and that can be a lot of fun.
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President Eden
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#5 Post by President Eden » Tue Jan 05, 2021 5:54 pm

Italy is the GOAT
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Yonni
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#6 Post by Yonni » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:09 pm

You hipsters are all wrong. Italy is weak just as everyone has always thought.
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Nephthys
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#7 Post by Nephthys » Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:30 pm

charlbaker wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:36 pm
One great thing about Italy if you're playing press is that every single country has a reason to talk to you because of your central location. It's entirely possible that Britain and Turkey will go a game without messaging each other once. Within reason, Italy will brush up with every single country and that can be a lot of fun.
Definitely. I would say that Italy certainly determines the pace of any considered press game. I timid Italy can mean the first three years pass without any serious occurrences.
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Peregrine Falcon
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#8 Post by Peregrine Falcon » Tue Jan 05, 2021 7:35 pm

Yonni wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:09 pm
You hipsters are all wrong. Italy is weak just as everyone has always thought.
I gotta agree with Yonni here. Italy is tactically weak. It's not tactically vulnerable, but I'd say it has worse access to the 18 centres needed for a solo than any other power except maybe Turkey.

But as many allude to, its diplomatic prowess and range of options do make it a fun power to play. I can't say I think its diplomatic and strategic influence translates much into solo wins, however.
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VillageIdiot
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#9 Post by VillageIdiot » Tue Jan 05, 2021 8:47 pm

Italy needs the right person in the drivers seat to do well, but if you've got the personality to make a lot of relationships and have the skill to work a lot of strings you can do quite well with it. The benefit of Italy is it's a lynchpin for a lot of countries early success and generally doesn't garner the same early attention that some of the more 'intimidating' or 'valuable' territories garner. If you can use that diplomatic influence to architect the gradual deterioration of your high risk threats (France, Turkey) and keep proper leverage on Austria it can make for a very powerful end game. Italy as a lot of options for different alliances, especially Wintergreens or everybody's sneaky triple alliance "hey let's stab the other guy after we knock out so-and-so" plans. People love to use Italy as their mid-game pivot ally, which opens up for a lot of potential for piloting your direction.
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David E. Cohen
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#10 Post by David E. Cohen » Wed Jan 06, 2021 6:08 am

charlbaker wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 3:36 pm
One great thing about Italy if you're playing press is that every single country has a reason to talk to you because of your central location. It's entirely possible that Britain and Turkey will go a game without messaging each other once. Within reason, Italy will brush up with every single country and that can be a lot of fun.
If you are England or Turkey, and you do not communicate to the other once in the game, you deserve to lose.
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Beneficial Insurance
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#11 Post by Beneficial Insurance » Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:22 am

Yonni wrote:
Tue Jan 05, 2021 6:09 pm
You hipsters are all wrong. Italy is weak just as everyone has always thought.
It is weak. But it is also weak and fun. As opposed to say, Turkey, where you only have one option for an opening worth considering, and when you fail, you hang in games for years and years crippled but not put out of your misery.
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swordsman3003
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#12 Post by swordsman3003 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 2:53 am

Beneficial Insurance wrote:
Mon Feb 01, 2021 8:22 am
As opposed to say, Turkey, where you only have one option for an opening worth considering, and when you fail, you hang in games for years and years crippled but not put out of your misery.
Are you sure?
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jay65536
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#13 Post by jay65536 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 4:13 pm

Turkey has at least 4 openings that make sense—possibly more if you don’t group together equivalent sets of moves.
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Ezio
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#14 Post by Ezio » Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:39 pm

I think what makes Turkey opening theory weird is there is one order that *always* happens.
I think CON-BUL is unique, and has probably been played in 100% of diplomacy games where turkey doesn't NMR.

I don't think there's another move so forced in the game.

jasnah
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#15 Post by jasnah » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:23 pm

Ezio wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:39 pm
I don't think there's another move so forced in the game.
Kie-Den. Any other order is offensive.

jay65536
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#16 Post by jay65536 » Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:52 pm

No. Those are not on the same level. Your belief that Kie-Den is automatic is a belief; that belief is not shared by many Diplomacy players, including but not limited to me.

Con-Bul is the most automatic move in the game. In my opinion, it goes:

1. Con-Bul. There is no valid alternative.
2. StP-GoB. The only valid alternative (Fin) is an extreme fringe case.
3. A distant third, Bud-Ser. The only valid alternatives are fringe cases.

Beyond that, I can think of a valid alternative to every S01 move you can come up with. Although just to play devil’s advocate, Kie-Den isn’t even Germany’s most automatic move. That’s Ber-Kie.
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Ezio
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#17 Post by Ezio » Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:26 pm

jasnah wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:23 pm
Ezio wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:39 pm
I don't think there's another move so forced in the game.
Kie-Den. Any other order is offensive.
I see you like to stir up controversy you don't really believe with grand statements. Did you do this before webdip forums corrupted you, or were you always like this?
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jasnah
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#18 Post by jasnah » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:09 pm

jay65536 wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 8:52 pm
Your belief that Kie-Den is automatic is a belief; that belief is not shared by many Diplomacy players, including but not limited to me.
I don't care if the belief is shared by other Diplomacy players; Kie-Den is a mandatory order. If many players believe otherwise, many players are wrong. Most players suck so what they think is irrelevant to what's correct or not.

jasnah
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#19 Post by jasnah » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:10 pm

Ezio wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 9:26 pm
I see you like to stir up controversy you don't really believe with grand statements. Did you do this before webdip forums corrupted you, or were you always like this?
I've literally never ordered anything but Kie-Den. I'll die on this hill. Who are you to say what I don't really believe?

AnimalsCS
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Re: Soloing as Italy

#20 Post by AnimalsCS » Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:43 pm

jasnah wrote:
Tue Feb 02, 2021 10:10 pm
I've literally never ordered anything but Kie-Den. I'll die on this hill.
The dark side of the exclusively-plays-gunboat mindset strikes again.
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