France vs Austria Bot Challenge

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President Eden
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#81 Post by President Eden » Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:08 pm

Doug7878 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:40 am
So, why has the bot stalled in this game ??? Mods ???

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel
Fear and dread at its inevitable defeat.
1

TheFlyingBoat
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#82 Post by TheFlyingBoat » Fri Nov 27, 2020 6:25 am

President Eden wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 4:08 pm
Doug7878 wrote:
Thu Nov 26, 2020 11:40 am
So, why has the bot stalled in this game ??? Mods ???

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel
Fear and dread at its inevitable defeat.
It realized the only winning move is not to play.
3

jasnah
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#83 Post by jasnah » Fri Nov 27, 2020 7:27 am

Is it just me or is the bot writing the same order every time in response to yours, it only changes when you change orders?

Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#84 Post by Doug7878 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:28 pm

@jasnah
Not sure what you mean "in response to"...
Can you provide an example from a game?

Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#85 Post by Doug7878 » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:45 pm

I can give you an example where the bot did something different from one game to another.
In a game as Austria, in the Spring phase, (Fr)A MAR moves to SPA (a neutral SC) and (Aus)A VEN simultaneously moves to PIE, leaving MAR open.

In the Autumn turn, (Aus)A PIE moves to MAR, as does (Fr)A SPA, so they bounce.

In a game soon after, Fairbot again playing as Austria in the same situation, (Aus)A PIE attempts to support move of SPA to MAR, covering MAR and costing France the build for SPA. (Note: It didn't work. The player moved A SPA on to Portugal, but that isn't the point.)

Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#86 Post by Doug7878 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:08 pm

Well, the bot is certainly dominating as Austria in 1v1.

Of its last 100 games, the bot has LOST only SIX games as Austria, FIVE of which were to zultar, who also had one draw.

Excluding zultar's 6 games of the bot's last 106 games, the bot has LOST only one game (to a player it has subsequently beaten).

In the bot's last 81 games not played against zultar ,the bot is unbeaten.

Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#87 Post by Doug7878 » Wed Dec 02, 2020 1:09 pm

... as Austria.

Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#88 Post by Doug7878 » Mon Dec 07, 2020 11:53 am

Please post FvA results against Fairbot here. The other thread is in the New Games area of the Forum. Thank you.

Djantani
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#89 Post by Djantani » Mon Dec 07, 2020 1:46 pm

I can confirm that the BOT does different things in exactly the same situation, which is very good. In fact I have found it to do 3 different things in 3 different games. So it is either a random choice (or a weighed random among a number of possible options) or it learns from previous games. I would be very much inclined to opt for the latter...

MerryBBuck
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#90 Post by MerryBBuck » Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:13 pm

I have also seen the bot make different moves in seemingly identical situations. However, there are other possibilities. One, the board might look identical to us humans, but have a different state to the bot. Two, the inference might not produce a consistent outcome.
Whatever the reason, if the bot make different moves in the same situation without being re-trained in between, then both moves yield the same value. I'm not sure how, but identifying those "either-or" situations gives a glimpse into the bot's "strategy," and might be key to finding ways to break it.

Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#91 Post by Doug7878 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 12:15 pm

In the last 60 games, four knights of the webDip realm have, as France, defeated Fairbot. These noble knights are -

MerryBBuck (2):
Fax4
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel
FAx2
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

Randaz20 (2):
FVA-2641
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel
fva-2640
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

Djantani (2):
BOT Ch F 01
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel
Hsjdhdhd
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

zultar (2):
FvA-2635
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel
FvA-2634
https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

In the last 324 games, Fairbot, as Austria, has lost only 40 games.

desdemona22
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#92 Post by desdemona22 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 1:59 pm

MerryBBuck wrote:
Mon Dec 07, 2020 4:13 pm
I have also seen the bot make different moves in seemingly identical situations. However, there are other possibilities. One, the board might look identical to us humans, but have a different state to the bot. Two, the inference might not produce a consistent outcome.
Whatever the reason, if the bot make different moves in the same situation without being re-trained in between, then both moves yield the same value. I'm not sure how, but identifying those "either-or" situations gives a glimpse into the bot's "strategy," and might be key to finding ways to break it.
It might also be the way the person is playing the game. One of the guys who worked on this also worked on their Poker bot Pluribus, and that bot leveraged how players played their previous moves to decide how to play their cards. I would think some of the same thinking is involved in this.
So for example, if you made some more risky moves before, the bot identifies you as a risky, more aggressive player, and subsequently identifies moves for that type of player. I may be overhyping the tech, but I think this is somewhat what they were aiming for.

goldfinger0303
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#93 Post by goldfinger0303 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 10:36 pm

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=336635

I join the ranks of the worthy. I'm now.....1 for 9 or something abysmal.
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Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#94 Post by Doug7878 » Tue Dec 08, 2020 11:42 pm

Congrats, gold.

and zultar gets another win in the game immediately preceding gold's. A real back to back smack-down.

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

dipperjay
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#95 Post by dipperjay » Wed Dec 09, 2020 2:04 am

It’s been a while, after a series of abysmal games, but there you go:

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=336657
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dipperjay
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#96 Post by dipperjay » Wed Dec 09, 2020 4:00 am

Second in a row, I was crushing the bot mid-game, but ended in a conventional center count, though the way to get there was unusual.

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=336664
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goldfinger0303
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#97 Post by goldfinger0303 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 7:35 am

I'm pissed. This shouldve been a win. But I think I've figured out a pretty good formula to beat it as France.

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=336699

goldfinger0303
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#98 Post by goldfinger0303 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:04 am

Got a (valid) draw just after though. I think I've found a way to fairly reliably counter the bot.

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=336701

Doug7878
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#99 Post by Doug7878 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 11:40 am

Congrats to michaelf77 for getting a WIN as France vs. the bot.

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

Also, congrats to MerryBBuck on another victory

https://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?game ... #gamePanel

As France, do we see a resurgent trend ? Only time will tell...
6 wins in the last 30 games
8 wins in the previous 70 games (31-100 games ago)
8 wins in the previous 100 games before that (101-200 games ago)

goldfinger0303
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Re: France vs Austria Bot Challenge

#100 Post by goldfinger0303 » Wed Dec 09, 2020 10:50 pm

I swear I'm not this bad, guys....another one I should've won (or at least drawn)

http://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=336781

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