1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

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gnuvag
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1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#1 Post by gnuvag » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:15 pm

Hello all,

Looking at this game...

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=300589

... can anyone suggest how France might have played differently in the first few years to do better against Austria? Ignore the last couple of years, where mistakes were made by both sides around Berlin and Munich - I'm interested in if Austria could have got into a better position earlier. Any thoughts much appreciated!

Also is there any strategy blogs or threads for 1v1 games (both France vs Austria and Germany vs Italy)? I've seen this thread - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=87 - and the articles linked from it, but wondering if there was anything else useful out there?

Cheers...

badivan1
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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#2 Post by badivan1 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:46 pm

In Autumn 1902, you could've gone Ruhr to Kiel (with support from Holland) and Burgundy to Ruhr instead of the actual continuation. There is a risk of being invaded in Burgundy, but usually, they won't. With my suggested line, fleet Gulf of Lyon can invade Tyrrhenian Sea with tempo instead, since you pick up your 3rd center in Holland instead.

In Spring 1903, your fleet went to Sweden instead of Baltic Sea. When Austria goes for Germany early, you want to break through Berlin and work your way from there. Specifically, Baltic Sea can support Kiel to Berlin and Burgundy can cut support from Munich. Ruhr can backfill Kiel.

Alternatively, you could've trapped Berlin to Kiel: Kiel to Denmark, Denmark to Baltic Sea, Ruhr to Holland, Burgundy to Ruhr, Paris to Burgundy. Then, by cutting support from Munich and by covering the retreat to Berlin with your fleet, you can destroy the trapped army.

In Autumn 1903, you didn't take Portugal, denying yourself a 3rd build this year. Your 2 fleets in the Mediterranean is enough to work their way against the lone Austrian fleet. Austria can't hold Tunis anyway, so no need to send your fleet so early.

For your 1903 builds, you could've built an army in Marseilles instead. Moving into Piedmont next year will threaten to take Venice or cut support in Tyrolia. Way more useful than a redundant 4th fleet in the Mediterranean.

in 1904, your fleet moved back to North Sea, which is a huge tempo loss. A fleet in the Baltic Sea gives you options for support and convoys. If you need an army in Scandinavia, you can have Kiel move through Denmark and have your other armies backfill.
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mhsmith0
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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#3 Post by mhsmith0 » Thu Jun 04, 2020 8:57 pm

Few things off the cuff

1. Winter 1901, build A mar nit F mar. You’re behind, you MUST push units forward not backward
2. 1903. Denmark goes to Baltic and can potentially force Berlin. You MIST recover there as fast as possible
3. You just generally overbuilt fleets. Fleets aren’t super valuable in this format
4. Winter 1903 - A mar can be supported into Pie and make trouble. F mar is useless for you.
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gnuvag
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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#4 Post by gnuvag » Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:51 pm

This is great advice, thanks so much for the responses. I'd been struggling to work out how to play France well but I'm starting to get there.

Definitely too many fleets (and no armies) down south. The fleets all got bogged down and I put up little resistance on the Italian mainland.

Interesting about taking more risks across the line in Germany - i.e. risking being bounced, or even losing Berlin. I had thought that would be more of a risk than it is, so that's something to work on in future.

I had thought it was vital to get to St Petersburg first, hence units heading via Scandinavia to there. But in this case obviously I should have focused on the battle in Europe first?

I've always felt like it was hard as France to get enough builds, and to get them to all the areas you need to in time. Let's see what happens next time...

mhsmith0
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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#5 Post by mhsmith0 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:10 pm

A big thing in this format is understanding when you’re behind and need to take risks, and when you’re ahead and anticipating the kind of risks an opponent might take.

But the big thing w southern fleets is, its useful to get into ION and pressure extra centers, but a competent Austria can defend Greece through Smyrna pretty well most of the time, and the resources you put into that means you sacrifice something else. The main thing your southern fleets will buy you is Tunis which is good (lots of close games come down to who can take/hold Tunis), but if you lose Mun/Ber or STP/Nor because Austria took advantage of the gaps your southern fleets focus created, it’s a poor trade.

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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#6 Post by Squigs44 » Fri Jun 05, 2020 7:27 pm

gnuvag wrote:
Fri Jun 05, 2020 6:51 pm
I had thought it was vital to get to St Petersburg first, hence units heading via Scandinavia to there. But in this case obviously I should have focused on the battle in Europe first?
This kind of depends a little bit on what Austria is doing. If Austria is attempting a rush and goes for St Petersburg earlier, then securing St Pete to prevent him from winning is vital. In this case though, Austria wasn't rushing, they didn't even move towards St Pete until you had a unit there threatening him. As France, if you can secure Tunis, Berlin, and Munich and hold that line, you will win. That is because France can always force St Pete given enough time.
Tl;dr - If Austria is focusing on Munich and Berlin and not St Pete, then France shouldn't rush St Pete, but should instead win the battle in Munich and Berlin (and preferably Tunis too).

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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#7 Post by CCR » Sat Jun 06, 2020 11:58 am

Basics: Austria has the advantage in the short term only. Considering Austrian is somewhat guatanteed all of urkey, Balkans, Italy, Austria and three Russian dots, summing to sixteen, then A needs two of Stp/ ber /mun /tun in order to win. Austria must conquer all of those 16 and 2 these 4 before F builds a force that can take the disputed scs back. F can easily claim back tun and stp one day - but that can be too late if A rushes correctly; but, if A focus on mun and ber too early, it demands so many units that A could not have the necessary force to claim all the necessary scs, and end up allowing F armies in Lvn region, or allowing F dominance of part of Italy; at the same time, if A gives up the German front, then F may enter key places like tyr and sil and screw a'a game. It is always a gamble.

gnuvag
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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#8 Post by gnuvag » Sun Jun 07, 2020 12:45 am

Big help everyone, thank you!

gnuvag
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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#9 Post by gnuvag » Sun Jun 14, 2020 4:22 pm

My next attempt (against the same opponent) went much better!

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=302722

I still made a few mistakes (any suggestions welcome!) but I had a much better idea of objectives and areas to focus on.

Hamilton Brian
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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#10 Post by Hamilton Brian » Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:49 am

Just jumping in here; reading the thread got me interested in playing against Austria bot. I have not won once. Austria really runs toward Munich and never looks back. I found I had some success jumping to Tunis and heading down Italy. However, that central part of Europe is hard. They make a run to Munich and get it even if France gets to Burgundy. I might try Marseilles to Burgundy, Paris to Picardy to eventually get to Ruhr, but that is limiting the builds in year one. It's a hell of a mental exercise.

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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#11 Post by goldfinger0303 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:16 pm

Hamilton Brian wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:49 am
Just jumping in here; reading the thread got me interested in playing against Austria bot. I have not won once. Austria really runs toward Munich and never looks back. I found I had some success jumping to Tunis and heading down Italy. However, that central part of Europe is hard. They make a run to Munich and get it even if France gets to Burgundy. I might try Marseilles to Burgundy, Paris to Picardy to eventually get to Ruhr, but that is limiting the builds in year one. It's a hell of a mental exercise.
Wait, you don't open Mar-Bur? There's essentially two French openings for Marseilles - one to Pie and one to Bur. Two builds is all France needs. Anything else is slowing momentum
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badivan1
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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#12 Post by badivan1 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:34 pm

Hamilton Brian wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 1:49 am
Just jumping in here; reading the thread got me interested in playing against Austria bot. I have not won once. Austria really runs toward Munich and never looks back. I found I had some success jumping to Tunis and heading down Italy. However, that central part of Europe is hard. They make a run to Munich and get it even if France gets to Burgundy. I might try Marseilles to Burgundy, Paris to Picardy to eventually get to Ruhr, but that is limiting the builds in year one. It's a hell of a mental exercise.
I took a quick look at some of your games. You must contest Germany; otherwise, Austria will have an easy time. To do that, you need a fleet in the Baltic Sea (via Denmark) and rush your armies forward ASAP. Also, don't try to hold Munich when you have a numerical disadvantage. You are better off moving your armies forward and gain a better position. With a fleet in the Baltic Sea, you should be able to punch through Berlin.
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Hamilton Brian
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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#13 Post by Hamilton Brian » Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:37 pm

goldfinger0303 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:16 pm


Wait, you don't open Mar-Bur? There's essentially two French openings for Marseilles - one to Pie and one to Bur. Two builds is all France needs. Anything else is slowing momentum
Bit of a mental shift to not consider it as a typical press France. Started a game this morning and went Mar>Bur, Par>Pic. That yielded somewhat better results, but still ended up giving it up to Austria again.

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Re: 1v1 France vs Austria Strategy

#14 Post by Squigs44 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 8:44 pm

Hamilton Brian wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 7:37 pm
goldfinger0303 wrote:
Mon Jun 15, 2020 5:16 pm


Wait, you don't open Mar-Bur? There's essentially two French openings for Marseilles - one to Pie and one to Bur. Two builds is all France needs. Anything else is slowing momentum
Bit of a mental shift to not consider it as a typical press France. Started a game this morning and went Mar>Bur, Par>Pic. That yielded somewhat better results, but still ended up giving it up to Austria again.
Typically Austria gets Munich in Spring 02. That's pretty much a given. Austria also gets Berlin early in a fair amount of games. However, Austria typically won't have the support needed to hold both of those long term, and France should be able to take at least one, if not both of them back by 03 or 04. If Austria does pour all of their resources into taking and holding Munich and Berlin, that means they have either neglected St Pete or Tunis enough for you to be able to pick up an extra SC in Italy or Russia.
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