In the case of abortion points 1 and 3 certainly apply.BrianBaru wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 1:26 am(Also its bizzare that he was suggesting the rules of just war should apply to an individual decision to sentence a particular person to death, but never mind).Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 28, 2024 12:50 amSorry, don't let my comments about the Catholic Church send this discussion off down a weird tangent. My main point was I don't regard that institution as the source of moral righteousness that Brian was attempting to rely on it as.
(Also its bizzare that he was suggesting the rules of just war should apply to an individual decision to sentence a particular person to death, but never mind).
Sorry you missed the point I was making. I’ll elaborate.
A just war involves killing humans. The death penalty involves killing humans, so the two are closely related.
Look at the 4 points I listed. These are the conditions necessary to justify taking a human life in a just war.
• the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
• all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
• there must be serious prospects of success;
• the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modem means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
The second one - all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective – supports the Catholic Church’s position against the death penalty. Even purely evil men like Charles Manson or Jeffery Dahlmer can be kept in solitary confinement.
And it also follows that there is no justification whatsoever for killing humans in Abortion, or disposing of fertilized human eggs in IVF procedures.
Points 2 and 4 depend on the circumstances and your view of the morality of the decisions involved, which is what we have been debating in the latter part of this thread. In some circumstances it can be argued (and Esquire B *has* argued) that condition 4 is met.