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If we exterminated the ~1% of the human population that are psychopaths. You can clearly identify them with a simple brain scan. Is there a utilitarian moral argument against exterminating psychopaths?

Quick question, just curious-

Have you had your brain scanned to see if you're a psychopath or not?

I have not.

However, my brain seems to be hyperdeveloped for the emotions that psychopaths are impaired in, and I seem to have many of the opposites of personality traits that psychopaths possess, so I think it's a safe bet I'm not one of them.

Oh, if you're the opposite that's good then!

I was just curious, cause normally I'd say the person suggesting we murder 78 million people would be exhibiting psychopathic behavior.

I guess murdering 78 million is a separate, different thing.

How exactly are we defining psychopaths? If entertaining the death of 78 million is a separate things?

Doom427 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:12 am

If entertaining the death of 78 million is a separate things?

You monster! There's nothing entertaining about killing tens of millions of people! How dare you use such language! Tolstoy makes a heartfelt plea based on the compassionate euthanasia of those poor souls unable to make a positive impact in the world in order to prevent them suffering the shame and emotional trauma of causing harm to their fellow man, and you want to turn it into some sort reality show for the masses ? Shame on you!

Also the population of France is 68 million, not 78 million

Doom427 wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:12 am

I was just curious, cause normally I'd say the person suggesting we murder 78 million people would be exhibiting psychopathic behavior.

Boom.

I have been reliably informed by various experts in the field that there exists within psychiatry a consensus of opinion that not all psychopaths are French. I withdraw my last comment.

Only a psychopath would propose something like this.

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 4:30 pm

Only a psychopath would propose something like this.

Ah, and there you have the argument Tolstoy was looking for. It is a truly moving act of selflessness for a psychopath to suggest the elimination of all psychopaths... but whilst it would indeed eliminate a lot of problems, it also eliminates a lot of the people who can think of solutions that are beyond the rest of us. Thus the diversity of thought and capability of humanity as a whole will be much reduced.

A fine comment, sir. Well said.

I agree with Jamie that we should only eliminate 95% of psychopaths.

Octavious wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 7:08 am

Also the population of France is 68 million, not 78 million

Based.

Since a diagnosis of psychopathic illness is many times very biased, who'd be the final arbiter on the matter of who lives and who dies? And if this person has a consciousness, how long would it take until this grave duty drives him insane?
And then why stop at psychopaths? Why not go on and eliminate gipsies or homosexuals or any other group? What about handicapped people? Sound familiar? It has been done in the past with dreadful results.
From ancient Sparta to Hitler's Third Reich, it was done again and again. Nothing is solved; the world remains the same.

PRINCE WILLIAM wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:21 pm

Since a diagnosis of psychopathic illness is many times very biased, who'd be the final arbiter on the matter of who lives and who dies? And if this person has a consciousness, how long would it take until this grave duty drives him insane?
And then why stop at psychopaths? Why not go on and eliminate gipsies or homosexuals or any other group? What about handicapped people? Sound familiar? It has been done in the past with dreadful results.
From ancient Sparta to Hitler's Third Reich, it was done again and again. Nothing is solved; the world remains the same.

Agree.

We should eliminate Tolstroy and Octavious and then test for any impact for the next 20 years.

(I assume none, because neither of them would have been able to breed in that time).

Funny you should say that. Mrs Oct had her first scan last week

Octavious wrote: ↑

Mon Sep 19, 2022 7:33 pm

Funny you should say that. Mrs Oct had her first scan last week

Oh, well congrats.

Yeah, early days yet but touch wood. Somehow mentioning it in a thread calling for the elimination of tens of millions of people and myself seems rather appropriate in a twisted webDip kind of way

Octavious wrote: ↑

Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:08 pm

it also eliminates a lot of the people who can think of solutions that are beyond the rest of us. Thus the diversity of thought and capability of humanity as a whole will be much reduced.

It's a myth that psychopaths have higher intelligence than non-psychopaths. Psychopaths actually score slightly lower than or equal to the general population on intelligence tests, on average. Psychopaths' excessive self-confidence, superficial charm, and incessant scheming and manipulation are often presumed to be signs of intelligence, but there is no real correlation. There are lots of really stupid psychopaths - these are the ones that make up about 20% of the population of prisons, and thus are out of sight and mind (further skewing public perception).

PRINCE WILLIAM wrote: ↑

Sun Sep 18, 2022 12:21 pm

Since a diagnosis of psychopathic illness is many times very biased, who'd be the final arbiter on the matter of who lives and who dies?

It's not biased at all. Psychopaths have very visibly different brains and patterns of brain activity that are very easily verifiable. This is a pretty good summary: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articl ... or-empathy

In questionable or borderline cases, maybe we could just exile them, or have some probationary system for 'semi-psychopaths'.

And if this person has a consciousness, how long would it take until this grave duty drives him insane?

I suspect you'd find plenty of eager volunteers. Psychopaths cause, directly and indirectly, hundreds of thousands of deaths every year. Overt, violent and direct murders aside (tens of thousands worldwide every year), you have wars to secure privileges and profits for politically connected psychopaths; you have drug ODs from pharmaceutical companies who deliberately pump deadly drugs into certain communities for massive profits; children driven to suicide from bullying in schools; adults driven to suicide from bullying at work by psychopathic bosses; others driven to suicide after being swindled or robbed of their life savings; others killed in accidents by psychopaths who cut corners on the job in dangerous fields like construction; others killed in road accidents by psychopaths' reckless driving; I could go on. All of these victims have (or had) friends and family.

Not to mention the people who aren't killed by psychopaths, who are even more numerous. Old grannies swindled out of their life savings, the millions of people left homeless from massive financial swindles like the "Great Recession" of 2008-09, people laid off so they could be replaced by cheaper third world labor, children mentally and physically abused by psychopathic parents or caretakers, et cetera, et cetera.

The victims of psychopaths number in the billions. You would find plenty whose sorrow has boiled over into enough rage that they'd be willing to flip a switch or pull a lever to rid society of this cancer.

And then why stop at psychopaths? Why not go on and eliminate gipsies or homosexuals or any other group? What about handicapped people? Sound familiar?

Not really. Gypsies, homosexuals, and handicapped people don't have brains hardwiring them to lie, cheat, steal, scheme, exploit, and brutalize others. At least, not more than the normal 1% overlap those groups will have with psychopathy. The demarcation here is pretty clear, there isn't a slope to slip on here.

I can't tell if Tolstoy is trolling or just a psychopath.