First time playing a griefer in this game.

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TomareUtsuZo
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#21 Post by TomareUtsuZo » Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:50 am

THC wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:00 am
OK - let's have a look who the griefer is. France did something you don't like in a game, and you bring it to the forum, in an on-going game. France pisses you off - let's forget the "I am not angry" comment because you obviously are/were - because they don't play in a certain way, and your response is to write a forum post to moan about it. Isn't that trying to disrupt the game?
Nope, I am not angry. Trust me, if I was angry, I wouldn't be here. Y'all have no idea what angry looks like.
Nor am I moaning. I am not saying, it's stupid. I am not bitching about the state of Diplomacy (something that I see alot of in these forums) I didn't bemoan my impending loss, nor blame France for my loss. I didn't call it not fair. I've played MUCH less fair games, and not cared (and occasionally cared about that.) I've played with players who went on tilt and sought to punish me for my behavior. I have never played against someone who from go one sought to ensure I lost, without some sort of "reason".
THC wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:00 am
And, frankly, bringing it to the forum, while the game is being played, is questionable. Wait until the EOG/AAR.
It's a full press game, non-anon game. I'll choose to disregard this.
THC wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:00 am
I call that playing Diplomacy. Not necessarily the best or most logical way to play, but then there's nothing to say that someone has to play logically. Whether something is "unreasonable" or not is a matter of opinion. You've heard of negotiating, right? Start high and negotiate down? Again, not what a lot of players do but that doesn't mean it's unheard of.
There was no negotiation. There was an unreasonable demand for me to hand him the game. And then punishment when I failed to give it to him.

Who knows why someone takes that path - could be all sorts of reasons. If someone is going to follow a certain strategy no matter what, the question should be what you can do about it - in the game.

What are you hoping to achieve in the game by bringing it to the forum? Possibly nothing. But you've failed to keep something from a game in that game. I've no respect for that.
TomareUtsuZo wrote:
Tue Oct 05, 2021 2:37 pm
Let me ask you the same thing I asked of Mercy, what do you have to add that would be of substance? If I am wrong, I'll listen.
Anything of substance? Bring something of substance to the forum and you'll get something of substance back. All you're doing is moaning - so you're getting moaning back. I can see why you've been away from the game.
[/quote]

TomareUtsuZo
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#22 Post by TomareUtsuZo » Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:01 am

(Sorry, my son caused a premature posting, so it's going to be a little funny looking)
There was no negotiation. There was an unreasonable demand for me to hand him the game. And then punishment when I failed to give it to him. And it having some silly name doesn't mean it's not griefing. (I am not sure what exact armored duck means, outside what you just said. So ...) If I ever chose to punish a player for their playing a reasonable position, I'd be a griefer.
THC wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:00 am
What are you hoping to achieve in the game by bringing it to the forum? Possibly nothing.
Nothing. Or next to nothing. I was so surprised, I commented on it. Maybe hear if it's common. See what other peoples opinions are.
THC wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:00 am
But you've failed to keep something from a game in that game. I've no respect for that.
As a matter of fact, THC, that's a lie. I did not bring this game in here. Mercy did that. And then Russia and France did. I did not mention the game in question. I did not mention the players in question. But, then they took their abusive press into the forum. So ... your failure to respect me is ... hilarious.

boylee
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#23 Post by boylee » Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:47 am

A selection of the things you've called people in this forum:
"griefer, ass, weak, silly, liar, bully, abusive". And yet you have the nerve to demand respect.

You've brought your in-game grievance to the public forum. I don't consider it good manners for an ongoing game, nor does it accomplish anything of any use to anyone, but it's certainly your right to do so.

But now you're unhappy with the reactions. If there are more to follow, I don't think you're going to like them either. So, what's next for you? Will you go to another, bigger forum that will serve you the justice you so deserve?

Or will you finally get over whatever it is you think has been done to you? Perhaps even finally be convinced that you're in the wrong? Not necessarily 'in-game' wrong (I would only be willing to argue about that AFTER the game is concluded), but 'attitude'-wise wrong. Name-calling, throwing tantrums, demanding to be respected, these are not the hallmarks of a person who is a good influence to their community. And I, for one, would love to see a healthy WebDiplomacy community.

We may deceive, lie, betray, and spite one another IN-GAME because it's fun. But when the dust settles and the game ends, IT'S OVER.
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TomareUtsuZo
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#24 Post by TomareUtsuZo » Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:45 pm

boylee wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 11:47 am


We may deceive, lie, betray, and spite one another IN-GAME because it's fun. But when the dust settles and the game ends, IT'S OVER.
Man, you guys always accuse me not liking this, or feeling that way. I called one person an ass. I've called your press bulling. Don't try to paint stink on me.
I am actually enjoying this conversation. Disagreement IS NOT the same thing as dislike. Pointing out what I consider to be incorrect conclusions, or misstatements of facts, is not being unhappy. It's debate. It's an invitation to expand on ones point. Do you think that I respond to your abusive press because I have to? I do it because arguing with you is fun, even if pointless. And ain't mad at you about your lies. I think your press is abusive, but I assume that's your shtik. I figure you have found that you can bully some people into doing what you want. And I respect that you are trying to win the solo. But, because the way I am built, arguing about it is fun, or else I'd just mute you.
Remember, it's YOU who brought our press into this thread. I didn't until you did.

Tjappator
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#25 Post by Tjappator » Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:03 pm

TomareUtsuZo wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:45 pm
Remember, it's YOU who brought our press into this thread. I didn't until you did.
From a third-person view, and since you appearantly are having fun in this debate and value facts, I would like to point out that this statement (from my point of view) is untrue.
Your very first post included references to press, including (but not limited to) a quote from press in the game.

On a more personal note, I'm not really sure what you are trying to accomplish by posting on the forum. If someone is "griefing" me, I just try to take happiness from ensuring that they will lose alongside me and leave it at that.
2

TomareUtsuZo
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#26 Post by TomareUtsuZo » Wed Oct 06, 2021 2:29 pm

Tjappator wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 1:03 pm
TomareUtsuZo wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 12:45 pm
Remember, it's YOU who brought our press into this thread. I didn't until you did.
From a third-person view, and since you appearantly are having fun in this debate and value facts, I would like to point out that this statement (from my point of view) is untrue.
Your very first post included references to press, including (but not limited to) a quote from press in the game.

On a more personal note, I'm not really sure what you are trying to accomplish by posting on the forum. If someone is "griefing" me, I just try to take happiness from ensuring that they will lose alongside me and leave it at that.
... ... You might have a point. Maybe. I don't quit agree, or disagree. It was a singular sentence, that had nothing to with the game (I consider it to be meta, not game), but rather was what I considered to be blatant admission of griefing. I ack that there is room for interpretation there.
(Delete's what followed) Yeah, that's what I do with most "wrong" play. (After checking my assumptions.) I only brought this up because I was so surprised to see it.

THC
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#27 Post by THC » Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:05 pm

TomareUtsuZo wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:01 am
There was no negotiation. There was an unreasonable demand for me to hand him the game. And then punishment when I failed to give it to him.
Exactly. Negotiation is when one side opens, and the other comes back with a counter. I don't know, obviously, but you've not said what your counter was.

I'm not sure, with the game so early in development, how this would have handed him the game. Three builds in the early game usually makes that power a target.

The point is, you seem to have not spent any time considering the demand/request. I'd bet on a dismissive comment... and then you wonder why he builds an alliance against you.
TomareUtsuZo wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:01 am
THC wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:00 am
But you've failed to keep something from a game in that game. I've no respect for that.
As a matter of fact, THC, that's a lie. I did not bring this game in here. Mercy did that. And then Russia and France did. I did not mention the game in question. I did not mention the players in question. But, then they took their abusive press into the forum. So ... your failure to respect me is ... hilarious.
I'm trying to work out whether you're a farmer given your ability to spread bullshit about, or a Trumpian based on your ability to ignore facts. Someone else produced a link to the game; you were the one who brought the whinging to the forum.
TomareUtsuZo wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:01 am
THC wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:00 am
And, frankly, bringing it to the forum, while the game is being played, is questionable. Wait until the EOG/AAR.
It's a full press game, non-anon game. I'll choose to disregard this.
You can choose to disregard this, you seem to be disregarding a lot of what you don't like, but it is still distasteful. It doesn't matter what the type of game is, what happens in the game - outside of cheating - should absolutely stay in the game while it is being played, IMO. As you're looking for opinions.
TomareUtsuZo wrote:
Wed Oct 06, 2021 10:01 am
And it having some silly name doesn't mean it's not griefing. (I am not sure what exact armored duck means, outside what you just said. So ...) If I ever chose to punish a player for their playing a reasonable position, I'd be a griefer.
You keep banging on about what is "reasonable" and "unreasonable" as if these are absolutes. They're subjective. If I'm playing Russia I would think it is reasonable that I get Sweden, although I'm going to need the acquiescence of Germany in taking it. If Germany feels this is unreasonable, then they're not going to give it to me.

Should I demand Sweden? Given that I'm powerless to take Sweden if Germany chooses to prevent me from doing so, probably not. If I am in a position to punish Germany for preventing this from happening, am I a griefer? No, I'm utilising resources to punish Germany because they're my enemy. This is part of the game. It has always been part of the game.

If one of the powers that I've managed to get on my side then sneaks into St Petersburg, should I carry on regardless? No, probably not; then again, maybe it's not the stab it seems, maybe it's a way of keeping the momentum going because it improves our position against our common enemy.

What do I do if I'm Germany in this position? Well, I could go off and complain about it, looking for sympathy. Does that help me in the game, though? No. I try to change things in the game. And if I can't change anything in the game, then that's tough. Maybe I should be wondering why these other players were so ready to jump on board with Russia?

"The Game of Diplomacy" by Richard Sharp, Chapter 2, under the heading 'Revenge'. An Armoured Duck: A player who continues with a tactic or strategy no matter what.

A silly name? Yep. Around longer than "griefer"? Yep. Am I being picky? Oh, yep.
4
Writer of "The Diplomaticon" blog.
Publisher of "50 Tips for Playing Better Diplomacy" book.
Potential publisher of the "Notes on a Napkin" dipzine(?)

Rattlesnake Randall
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#28 Post by Rattlesnake Randall » Thu Oct 07, 2021 11:45 pm

It's a war game... this post is pretty sad... there will be other games even if this one didn't go the way you wanted...
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ubercacher16
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#29 Post by ubercacher16 » Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:11 pm

This thread is so wonderful, thank you all. Sincerely.
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Kakarroto
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#30 Post by Kakarroto » Sat Oct 09, 2021 10:52 am

ubercacher16 wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:11 pm
This thread is so wonderful, thank you all. Sincerely.
I'm already pumped having you in the next mafia mini ~♥
3

TomareUtsuZo
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#31 Post by TomareUtsuZo » Mon Oct 11, 2021 11:22 am

ubercacher16 wrote:
Fri Oct 08, 2021 10:11 pm
This thread is so wonderful, thank you all. Sincerely.
I agree it was pretty fun. More fun than game itself. I can't really comment anymore, because to do so would take it from meta to actual intel, I do draw the line there.

MajorMitchell
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#32 Post by MajorMitchell » Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:20 pm

Well I wish you all bon chance. I am in so much trouble. I just don't have the time for Webdiplomacy..got back after a long drive to Adelaide for a political meeting, the local internet totally overloaded this evening so I just couldn't get through to Webdiplomacy.
What a life, amongst emails I responded to whilst in Adelaide, one to my lawyer.
Gave up earlier tonight because of useless internet. Get up at midnight when internet is working, access webdiplomacy to see I've missed orders again!
Oh there's a new email from my lawyer and new one from the film.producer to look.at & a full.on day starting in 8hrs.. joy
1

TomareUtsuZo
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#33 Post by TomareUtsuZo » Mon Oct 18, 2021 4:42 am

MajorMitchell wrote:
Sun Oct 17, 2021 2:20 pm
Well I wish you all bon chance. I am in so much trouble.
The old Austria?

boylee
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#34 Post by boylee » Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:21 pm

No, old Austria was a noob. The Major is a legend of this site, or at least the forum. His adventures are well documented here and were a great read during the summer lockdown.

Wishing you all the best in your continued struggles.
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TomareUtsuZo
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#35 Post by TomareUtsuZo » Tue Oct 19, 2021 7:05 am

Ah, old Russia.
Ty.

TomareUtsuZo
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#36 Post by TomareUtsuZo » Tue Oct 19, 2021 11:03 am

boylee wrote:
Mon Oct 18, 2021 3:21 pm
Wishing you all the best in your continued struggles.
Unmute me. I'll probably make you laugh.

boylee
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#37 Post by boylee » Tue Oct 19, 2021 2:29 pm

I did not specify but that was for the Major and his struggles.

I'll unmute you for the game's post mortem. Until then, I'd rather not.

TomareUtsuZo
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#38 Post by TomareUtsuZo » Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:51 am

lol. I looked back out our chat. Not gonna lie, super curious if you have a complaint that makes sense. Anyway, good luck out there. I think you got it.

Yonni
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#39 Post by Yonni » Wed Oct 20, 2021 5:03 pm

A neutral Belgium in 1905 is fun to see. Also glad to see what whinging in the forum isn't a successful strategy.
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lpl1977
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Re: First time playing a griefer in this game.

#40 Post by lpl1977 » Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:09 pm

This is all very entertaining please continue the verbal sparring! I will make myself popcorn now.
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