Freedom!

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FriendBoy
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Re: Freedom!

#21 Post by FriendBoy » Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:35 pm

How is wearing a mask supposed to make you safe anyway? It is for the safety of others.

Meg O'Longdong
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Re: Freedom!

#22 Post by Meg O'Longdong » Sat Aug 14, 2021 10:57 pm

Well yea, the only way to protect yourself by using a mask is to ensure everyone around you has a mask because you can't trust them to know whether they are sick or not. Masks stop a sick person from spreading the disease.

frostwind
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Re: Freedom!

#23 Post by frostwind » Sun Aug 15, 2021 3:41 am

FriendBoy wrote:
Sat Aug 14, 2021 7:35 pm
How is wearing a mask supposed to make you safe anyway? It is for the safety of others.
While it is true that masks are much more effective at keeping others safe than keeping you safe, it's not quite useless... for example see: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.est.0c07291

I'm not sure of other studies, but this showed common masks (not N95) decrease the number of droplets by 30-50% that make it to your face. It isn't quite an either-or situation: while this isn't too substantial a decrease, it can still mean the difference between infection and non-infection.

Honestly, my view on this is, follow guidelines from relevant health authorities, protect your communities, they are you allies, prevent COVID from getting a solo win over us all, and at the point that we have a stalemate line and the disease is at a manageable level, we will have returned to normalcy.
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flash2015
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Re: Freedom!

#24 Post by flash2015 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:10 pm

For me, life isn't too bad now. Just got back from my first real international vacation since COVID began (Italy). While there were a few additional complexities with travelling it was mostly smooth sailing which was great.

Not everything has gone well over the past few months though. Australia is going out of their way to completely and utterly shaft expats. Even though I waited until I was fully vaccinated and I had tried my best to be as safe as possible, Australia didn't give a s***. I lost my mother on the last day of a 14 day quarantine. After 20 years holding out from becoming a Yank, it no longer made sense to wait as Australia decided to screw expats even harder (e.g. halving the travel quotas even as the risk from travellers goes down, punishing tax changes for expats, travel exemption changes that make it likely that I couldn't leave if I go back again, no end in sight to the travel restrictions). I finally applied for US citizenship a few weeks ago.

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Re: Freedom!

#25 Post by flash2015 » Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:18 pm

<duplicate>

MajorMitchell
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Re: Freedom!

#26 Post by MajorMitchell » Sun Aug 22, 2021 11:43 am

Oh wow, Freedom.
Let's thank incompetence by western military and Governments, Australia's Smirko from Advertising & Jo Biden's team plus Imran Khan for helping the Taliban in Afghanistan.
Let's thank, Xi Jinpeng for enabling the military coup d'etat in Myanmar in February by Min Aung Hlaing.

Getting vaccinated against CV19, wearing masks, complying with science based public health measures to fight CV19 ~ we see these as totalitarian measures (or perhaps more accurately the deceived and ignorant have that opinion) and don't worry that Uber/TikTok etc are insidiously enslaving billions of willing victims?
Cosmic Madness reigns over all of us.

Love your work 💜 Jmo and clarity of guidance for a "Forum with More Decorum" sinner.
There exists in our Forum with More Decorum the freedom to discuss the history of Facism in Europe provided that contributors do so accurately, are careful in their use of language and can construct intelligent discourse. Freedom of expression within well defined standards.

Relevance, factual accuracy are required when using this freedom & a benevolent Jmo is vindicated and his punitive measures with what fails to meet our standards have the full approval of this Daffy Old scribbler.

Wusti
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Re: Freedom!

#27 Post by Wusti » Sun Aug 22, 2021 1:41 pm

I have to say this Neocon primacy of the individual over the community BS pisses me off. Those who fail to get vaccinated due to ignorance, like the world did with Polio, Smallpox etc don't need to be marked: Darwin will prevail.

Banning people for voicing an opinion against them is also BS of a different colour and texture.

Crazy Anglican
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Re: Freedom!

#28 Post by Crazy Anglican » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:09 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:10 pm
After 20 years holding out from becoming a Yank.... I finally applied for US citizenship a few weeks ago.

Um? ... Welcome?
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flash2015
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Re: Freedom!

#29 Post by flash2015 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:42 pm

Crazy Anglican wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:09 pm
flash2015 wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:10 pm
After 20 years holding out from becoming a Yank.... I finally applied for US citizenship a few weeks ago.

Um? ... Welcome?
Sorry. Forgot the "USA! USA! USA!"

Happier? :P
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Octavious
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Re: Freedom!

#30 Post by Octavious » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:45 pm

The Australian strategy has largely been a success. The only obvious drawback being an initially slow vaccination rate which, considering that vaccination is the only way back to normality, is a little baffling. Still, they now seem fairly well on their way to getting to the level of vaccination required to open up fully. The difficulty being that in the meantime they will be treated to lockdowns and rising case numbers whilst other parts of the world take a bit of a breather. Ultimately they will likely walk away from Covid-19 a lot better off than most, but for the next month or so it may feel a bit grim.
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Octavious
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Re: Freedom!

#31 Post by Octavious » Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:53 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:42 pm
Sorry. Forgot the "USA! USA! USA!"

Happier?
Never had you down as joining the USA chanting Yanks. I always felt you were better suited to the cream cheese bagel, angry jogger, and chiwawas in a sling fraternity ;)
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Crazy Anglican
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Re: Freedom!

#32 Post by Crazy Anglican » Sun Aug 22, 2021 7:48 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:42 pm
Crazy Anglican wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:09 pm
flash2015 wrote:
Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:10 pm
After 20 years holding out from becoming a Yank.... I finally applied for US citizenship a few weeks ago.

Um? ... Welcome?
Sorry. Forgot the "USA! USA! USA!"

Happier? :P
Nope, say what you want. It’s one of the perks.
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flash2015
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Re: Freedom!

#33 Post by flash2015 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:41 pm

Octavious wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:45 pm
The Australian strategy has largely been a success. The only obvious drawback being an initially slow vaccination rate which, considering that vaccination is the only way back to normality, is a little baffling. Still, they now seem fairly well on their way to getting to the level of vaccination required to open up fully. The difficulty being that in the meantime they will be treated to lockdowns and rising case numbers whilst other parts of the world take a bit of a breather. Ultimately they will likely walk away from Covid-19 a lot better off than most, but for the next month or so it may feel a bit grim.
You are right. It has been a big success. The slow start to the vaccination wasn't that big a deal because they had been able to keep COVID out. When I was finally released from solitary confinement in early June, it felt kind of weird to not need my mask. It was nice!

Australia's success though was eventually going to become its undoing. Coming from COVID Zero, for many people, ANY COVID risk would be too much. Just as I was leaving they decided to halve the quotas even though the risk of COVID from former "leper colonies" like the USA had become much lower due to the vaccine. Discussions around perhaps making it easier for the vaccinated to get in or out would turn into "but the vaccinated can get infected too"...therefore the vaccinated should be treated in an identical way to the unvaccinated. Even the Prime Minister himself though acknowledged the much lower risk from the vaccinated at a press conference (I think he said something like "7 days of quarantine for a vaccinated person is more effective that 14 days for an unvaccinated one"). It was nuts that the vaccinated and unvaccinated continued to be treated the same.

The media has also been fomenting outrage against expat visitors, "how dare they have a holiday to see family and friends!!" ignoring the fact that it had been over a year since the border had been closed with no end date in sight. Family especially is important. With no end date in sight, what the hell do they think people should do? I tried to do the right thing and wait for the vaccine to minimize the risk of bringing COVID with me...but I realize I should have been more selfish and come earlier.

In some ways the current outbreak in NSW is a blessing. Whilst it is bad that Australia had to give up COVID Zero earlier than planned and the lockdowns are awful, it has given rocket fuel to the vaccine rollout (I was worried it would drag on since with no risk there is no rush) and in a few months it will becoming politically easy to open up the border and normalize things as COVID will be endemic in Australia anyway (though of course vaccine passports and COVID tests before travel will likely last for years).

You may be getting in all this that I am a little bitter. Too f**** right I am. Over the past few months I really felt "the hate" towards me and other expats, that we didn't matter at all no matter what the circumstances. Whatever the US's faults, one thing I do know is that they don't screw over their expats (apart from with the taxes :) ).

flash2015
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Re: Freedom!

#34 Post by flash2015 » Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:55 pm

Octavious wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:53 pm
flash2015 wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:42 pm
Sorry. Forgot the "USA! USA! USA!"

Happier?
Never had you down as joining the USA chanting Yanks. I always felt you were better suited to the cream cheese bagel, angry jogger, and chiwawas in a sling fraternity ;)
What about angry walker?? And I don't even own a dog, you insensitive clod!

Octavious
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Re: Freedom!

#35 Post by Octavious » Sun Aug 22, 2021 9:05 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 8:55 pm
Octavious wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:53 pm
flash2015 wrote:
Sun Aug 22, 2021 5:42 pm
Sorry. Forgot the "USA! USA! USA!"

Happier?
Never had you down as joining the USA chanting Yanks. I always felt you were better suited to the cream cheese bagel, angry jogger, and chiwawas in a sling fraternity ;)
What about angry walker?? And I don't even own a dog, you insensitive clod!
It's inevitable. It is your destiny.
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Octavious
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Re: Freedom!

#36 Post by Octavious » Mon Aug 23, 2021 8:10 am

What is undeniable, be it in Australia or elsewhere and regardless of how well Covid-19 has been handled, is that some of the Covid-19 measures brought in have not only been utterly unnecessary, but in some cases actively harmful.

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw/res ... 58ksh.html

Regardless of whether you think that those skeptical of various measures are right or wrong, it is vitally important that these people exist and have a voice. In questioning covid policy many more cock-ups have been avoided.
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MajorMitchell
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Re: Freedom!

#37 Post by MajorMitchell » Mon Aug 23, 2021 10:41 am

As an Antipodean in Ramindjeri country I would agree with much of what flash2015 about the situation in sunny Australia.
There's no doubt in my mind that PM Smirko & his Federal Government failed to establish quarantine camps like the one in the northern territory at Howard Springs in similar locations to get large numbers of expats home faster and with the state governments, tried these "Medi~Hotels" in capital cities which just haven't had the required capacity and have been sources of outbreaks.

Our vaccination strategy was flawed but is getting better organised. We're a long way from where we need to be, in my opinion we need to get to above 80% of our population above the age of twelve fully vaccinated and the federal government is talking 80% of an adult population that gives an effective vaccination rate much lower ~ 55-60% of the total population

I agree with Wusti, I am fed up with selfish individuals who won't put our common interest first, who flout the public health safety standards and who are lethargic about vaccination or anti vaccination for no good medical reasons.
I am old enough to remember polio and whooping cough (which killed a lot of children & babies) in Australia and the way​ vaccination changed that, effectively eradicating these diseases in Australia.

If you live in Australia you are extremely fortunate and there's responsibilities that come with that, to our land and it's animal and plant life, to our people our communities, and after those responsibilities, then come our own interests.

So petulant whining blighters who won't get vaccinated promptly when it's free are exactly that, petulant, selfish and I have zero tolerance of their behaviours.
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Re: Freedom!

#38 Post by Octavious » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:16 pm

You'll be old enough to remember thalidomide too, then. And from what I recall the whooping cough vaccine of the 70s/80s had an unfortunate reputation for neurological complications, which is why that formulation is no longer in use. These are not, and never have been, black and white issues.
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Wusti
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Re: Freedom!

#39 Post by Wusti » Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:57 pm

Octavious wrote:
Mon Aug 23, 2021 2:16 pm
You'll be old enough to remember thalidomide too, then. And from what I recall the whooping cough vaccine of the 70s/80s had an unfortunate reputation for neurological complications, which is why that formulation is no longer in use. These are not, and never have been, black and white issues.
God don't start the racist thing as well!

The real problem was our idiot Prime Minister placing all our eggs in the AZ basket (because we could manufacture locally, but no facilities exist in Australia yet to manufacture mRNA vaccines), without the proper hedges in place with other vaccines, such as Pfizer and Moderna. They left a gap of about 5 months during which other countries ordered about 42B does, leaving us, well buggered really when the AZ shit hit the fan here.

Being a Sydney resident myself, this lockdown (or mockdown as we affectionately call it) has been a joke - and the premier has played politics with it, refusing to deny she didn't lockdown fast and hard enough. I'm in Week 8 with a guaranteed 6 more to go - and we'll be at 50 deaths for this outbreak soon. Nothing much in the big scheme of things, unless of course you are directly touched.

Our NSW and Federal governments screwed the pooch and I am mega-pissed off. I've been waiting 3 months now for my first Pfizer shot, and am scheduled for it in about 2 and bit weeks from now. So here's hoping I get it in time! We'll be at 1000+ case load per day in Sydney by mid-week with less than 40% fully vaccinated. Shit could get real pretty fast.

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Re: Freedom!

#40 Post by Octavious » Mon Aug 23, 2021 5:43 pm

What AZ shit?
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