Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

General discussions that don't fit in other forums can go here.
Forum rules
Feel free to discuss any topics here. Please use the Politics sub-forum for political conversations. While most topics will be allowed please be sure to be respectful and follow our normal site rules at http://www.webdiplomacy.net/rules.php.
Message
Author
Matticus13
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:21 am
Karma: 402

Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#1 Post by Matticus13 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 5:53 pm

So, now that the common folk of the interwebs have figured out the power of coordinated dumping the Feds, Wall Street, and Scrooge McDuck are pissed. Do they have a legitimate reason to be pissed? Can the question be answered with more questions? I question that, but...

“How is the Redditors’ collaboration much different from hedge funds and institutional investors deciding to short GameStop almost as a collective? Why is market manipulation and activist investment acceptable when a billionaire does it but not when an anarchic group of quarantined day traders does? Why is it OK to bet on a company’s failure?"
Jacob Silverman, New Republic

So many questions.
1

Jamiet99uk
Posts: 17276
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 8119
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#2 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:19 pm

Short selling is a form of gambling. If billionaires and hedge funds are allowed to do it, then ordinary people should be allowed to do it as well. That seems a pretty simple position.

Billionaires, hedge fund managers and, to be blunt, a lot of senior people who derive their income and wealth from manipulating the stock market, are fucking parasites who leech off the labour of real workers and contribute little of genuine benefit to society. A society in which they did not exist would be a better one.
3

Jamiet99uk
Posts: 17276
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 8119
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#3 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:24 pm

(Someone should probably move this to the "Politics" area btw)
1

Matticus13
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:21 am
Karma: 402

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#4 Post by Matticus13 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:29 pm

Is the stock market political?
3

bo_sox48
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3031
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:01 am
Karma: 2107
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#5 Post by bo_sox48 » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:36 pm

Off Topic seems appropriate, given the subject matter is not inherently political. Personally, sticking it to the hedge fund managers and massive capital firms for the last year and a half since I got involved has been a purely apolitical venture and in my mind the answers to these above questions are too apolitical.
2

Jamiet99uk
Posts: 17276
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 8119
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#6 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:44 pm

Lol @ people thinking the structural problems of late-stage capitalism aren't political, but ok, please continue.
6

Jamiet99uk
Posts: 17276
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 8119
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#7 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:45 pm

bo_sox48 wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:36 pm
Personally, sticking it to the hedge fund managers and massive capital firms for the last year and a half since I got involved...
I KNEW THIS WAS ALL THE WORK OF BO_SOX, THE VIGILANTE OF WALL STREET 8-)
4

Jamiet99uk
Posts: 17276
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:42 pm
Location: Durham, UK
Karma: 8119
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#8 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Jan 29, 2021 7:10 pm

2

yavuzovic
Posts: 2877
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 2:42 pm
Location: Sakarya/Turkey
Karma: 563
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#9 Post by yavuzovic » Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:25 pm

I would support the idea that a bunch of ordinary people coordinating to manipulate the stock market but I would understand that the traditional owners of the stock market raging at them. It's understandable that media backs them and markets like Robinhood to take measures to protect the rich given they are more of a regular customer of the stock market. I believe that every independent company has the right to serve whomever they want so I don't hate them for discriminating against ordinary people by restricting certain transactions. I would protest their action by trying to avoid using their service. I don't know much about the stock market except those I heard from the people around and news, so I'm not sure if they would be affected if a crowd protests their policies.

jmo1121109
Developer
Developer
Posts: 1074
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:20 pm
Karma: 2850
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#10 Post by jmo1121109 » Sat Jan 30, 2021 12:30 am

yavuzovic wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 11:25 pm
I would support the idea that a bunch of ordinary people coordinating to manipulate the stock market but I would understand that the traditional owners of the stock market raging at them. It's understandable that media backs them and markets like Robinhood to take measures to protect the rich given they are more of a regular customer of the stock market. I believe that every independent company has the right to serve whomever they want so I don't hate them for discriminating against ordinary people by restricting certain transactions. I would protest their action by trying to avoid using their service. I don't know much about the stock market except those I heard from the people around and news, so I'm not sure if they would be affected if a crowd protests their policies.
Any finance company under law has to follow specific non discrimination legislation and other regulatory rules. So they probably don't count as an independent company the way you are thinking about independent.
1

leon1122
Posts: 436
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 3:43 pm
Karma: 254

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#11 Post by leon1122 » Sat Jan 30, 2021 3:06 am

What the good folks at r/wallstreetbets did was the epitome of free market capitalism. The hedge funds are now lobbying the government to create regulations to stop it from happening again. That is crony corporatism, not free market capitalism.
9

Matticus13
Posts: 408
Joined: Wed Mar 20, 2019 2:21 am
Karma: 402

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#12 Post by Matticus13 » Sat Jan 30, 2021 5:19 am

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Fri Jan 29, 2021 6:44 pm
Lol @ people thinking the structural problems of late-stage capitalism aren't political, but ok, please continue.
I was more interested in the hypocrisy aspect of the whole situation.

RoganJosh
Silver Donator
Silver Donator
Posts: 548
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:02 am
Location: Stockholm
Karma: 449
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#13 Post by RoganJosh » Sat Jan 30, 2021 1:00 pm

The whole thing sounds like a pyramid scheme to me. and by pitching themselves as anti-hedge, they got everyone to support there little pyramid scheme.

bo_sox48
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3031
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:01 am
Karma: 2107
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#14 Post by bo_sox48 » Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:42 pm

If my 8000% profits are typical of a pyramid scheme, I need to find more pyramid schemes.

What this is is market manipulation of the same type that those hedge funds and money managers employ regularly. People my age (25), which I suspect is most of the “retail” investing crowd, remember 2008 quite well when these same people took us by the hand and led us into a worldwide economic depression because it made them money. Collectively, we want that money back, and we want them to disappear. There is no “pitching” as anti-anything; it’s just an expression of the way that so many of us have been raised to feel. The banks screwed us, the hedge funds screwed us, the government screwed us, and now, for just a brief moment in time that will surely end, we’re screwing back. It’s cathartic. That feeling should be mutual amongst those who participate, or at the very least they should be profiting nicely off of the exploits of those of us who have been in for over a year now. Pyramid schemes, in the way I understand them, do not work that way.

If you can work your way past the heavy layer of cringy memes and/or horrible people saying horrible things in r/wallstreetbets you will find that the explanations for how this works are all there and that furthering the education of a new brand of investor is a tertiary but important goal behind fucking Melvin and stealing his money. We know and explain that exit strategies are important, and we also know and explain that some just don’t have one and will end up losing a lot more than they realized they could. Those with $10,000 in savings who dumped their piggy banks without a care at $400 are the ones I’m talking about. They will probably end up agreeing with your uninformed assessment in the end when they have to start all over again, as will Wall Street, their friends at CNBC, and many middle aged dads who are upset that their SPY shares are down a couple points and the $8000 they put into a fractional share of Berkshire Hathaway A has not yet gained 1% this year. I feel bad for them, but not to worry, as Apple, Amazon, and Alphabet will all be up nicely by the year’s end still, and this moronic swing trader here will buy back in when they’re low. Gonna go do that right now.

tl;dr - in the words of the wise Lord Farquad, some of you may die, but that is a sacrifice I am willing to make.

RoganJosh
Silver Donator
Silver Donator
Posts: 548
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:02 am
Location: Stockholm
Karma: 449
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#15 Post by RoganJosh » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:14 pm

I mean, I hope you realize that you're one of them now.

President Eden
Posts: 1691
Joined: Fri Oct 20, 2017 2:11 pm
Karma: 1611

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#16 Post by President Eden » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:43 pm

I love that I can +1 Jamie and leon in the same thread in good faith lol.

Power To The Players
2

bo_sox48
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 3031
Joined: Thu Jun 08, 2017 1:01 am
Karma: 2107
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#17 Post by bo_sox48 » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:06 pm

RoganJosh wrote:
Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:14 pm
I mean, I hope you realize that you're one of them now.
I sold out on Thursday, so no, not really.

RoganJosh
Silver Donator
Silver Donator
Posts: 548
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:02 am
Location: Stockholm
Karma: 449
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#18 Post by RoganJosh » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:13 pm

What difference does that make?

flash2015
Gold Donator
Gold Donator
Posts: 2978
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:55 pm
Location: Planet Earth
Karma: 1046

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#19 Post by flash2015 » Sat Jan 30, 2021 9:27 pm

I thought these were "hedge" funds. Surely they would have hedged their shorts with call options?

I am not a fan of what is happening here. Yes, there will be some "ordinary" people that make out like bandits...and some hedge funds are getting hurt. But new hedge funds likely have joined the party making money off the volatility. Insiders that are able to sell will also be making windfall profits. And the vast majority of people that have joined in the frenzy, unless they take profits when they have the chance, will likely lose their investments when the tide turns
1

RoganJosh
Silver Donator
Silver Donator
Posts: 548
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 1:02 am
Location: Stockholm
Karma: 449
Contact:

Re: Gamestop, AMC, and the Angry Hedge Funds

#20 Post by RoganJosh » Sat Jan 30, 2021 10:01 pm

Yeah, hedge funds love this kind of shit. I guess that Melvin Capital took something of a beating, but overall I'd expect the hedge fund managers to be exuberant.
2

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Bing [Bot] and 1 guest