Processing problem

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Spitnaz
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Processing problem

#1 Post by Spitnaz » Thu Nov 03, 2022 3:04 pm

I'm just curious about the status of the site issue. I assume someone is aware and working on it. Is there any ETA on when it will be running again?
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Jamiet99uk
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Re: Processing problem

#2 Post by Jamiet99uk » Thu Nov 03, 2022 10:31 pm

Yo, Admins / Mods, what gives?
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kestasjk
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Re: Processing problem

#3 Post by kestasjk » Fri Nov 04, 2022 7:57 am

Sorry all and thanks captainmeme for the heads up; I'm supposed to get an SMS if the site is in a failure mode but for some reason I didn't, I'll look into what happened asap.
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Aristocrat
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Re: Processing problem

#4 Post by Aristocrat » Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:44 am

Is there a rule as to when extra time is added during a processing failure and when it is not? The message we get during delays says extra time will be added (if I recall correctly, the amount of time is almost always reset to the time that was left when the processing error first hit), but this time all the games just processed instantly and as a result a lot of people were booted out of games, probably unintentionally. Including me.

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Re: Processing problem

#5 Post by kestasjk » Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:57 am

I did think about that, but I’m not sure how to make a rule like that; if games hadn’t been processed for days players have had days to enter orders, then when games continue processing presumably after that long everyone has entered orders.

What I’d expect causes people to get booted is that fast cycle games continue and then on the next cycle people get booted, but I can’t think how we would resync people who are on fast cycle games after days of downtime. I’m open to suggestions, although this shouldn’t happen at all and I’ll be putting a lot of effort into finding out what happened and how we’ll keep it from repeating

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Re: Processing problem

#6 Post by kestasjk » Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:59 am

I guess I can see how if I added a day of delay to all games that would give people time to prepare that in a day processing would resume. Are you saying it would be better if I had added time to all games just so people can see when the next process time is coming?

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Re: Processing problem

#7 Post by Jamiet99uk » Fri Nov 04, 2022 12:31 pm

kestasjk wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:59 am
I guess I can see how if I added a day of delay to all games that would give people time to prepare that in a day processing would resume. Are you saying it would be better if I had added time to all games just so people can see when the next process time is coming?
Kestas, the message that appears at the top of the homepage when there is a processing error promises that "extra time will be added to games to compensate".

If you don't actually add extra time, why is the site set to display a message which essentially tells everyone a lie about this?

Don't have a process whereby the website promises something that it won't actually do.

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Re: Processing problem

#8 Post by Omphalos » Fri Nov 04, 2022 1:12 pm

"...when games continue processing presumably after that long everyone has entered orders"

I think it is not obvious that it is still possible to enter orders when there is a message saying games are not processing. I didn't get caught myself, but I would not be surprised if some people simply assumed they couldn't enter orders when the game was down.
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Re: Processing problem

#9 Post by jmo1121109 » Fri Nov 04, 2022 10:40 pm

kestasjk wrote:
Fri Nov 04, 2022 11:57 am
I did think about that, but I’m not sure how to make a rule like that; if games hadn’t been processed for days players have had days to enter orders, then when games continue processing presumably after that long everyone has entered orders.

What I’d expect causes people to get booted is that fast cycle games continue and then on the next cycle people get booted, but I can’t think how we would resync people who are on fast cycle games after days of downtime. I’m open to suggestions, although this shouldn’t happen at all and I’ll be putting a lot of effort into finding out what happened and how we’ll keep it from repeating
I've added however much time the site was down for, a min of 12 hours, and a maximum of 2 days. Never add more than 12 hours at a time in the mod control panel or it will pause every game with a longer length of time, just add 12 hours 2+ times as needed. Then run the 2 other mod tools needed to prevent games from ended up crashed, and then restart processing.
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Re: Processing problem

#10 Post by Gowron » Sat Nov 05, 2022 6:00 pm

I think this is related. I noticed this game is stuck, though it says it will start on the next process cycle. https://www.webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=456171

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Re: Processing problem

#11 Post by kestasjk » Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:25 am

Thanks all, I noticed a site down e-mail just now with no associated SMS; the site down was because the bots had to catch up with a bunch of orders and it turns out we had just run out of SMS credits due to all the site slowness alerts.

Thanks for the heads up about the extra time business jmo, I'll bear that in mind.

@jamiet The idea is that if the site experiences downtime time will be added to compensate for the down time, but in this case I thought processing had paused but the site had been up the whole time.
If the site hasn't been processing for two days but people can enter orders surely no-one would want me to add another two days on, essentially taking the time without game processing to four days.

This does leave a problem for live games, since they start back up with a rapid phase length that people could easily miss out on. I think for the sake of those games when the processing is down for a long period we will add 24 hours just to allow live games to catch up.

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Re: Processing problem

#12 Post by Jamiet99uk » Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:57 am

kestasjk wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:25 am
@jamiet The idea is that if the site experiences downtime time will be added to compensate for the down time, but in this case I thought processing had paused but the site had been up the whole time.
If the site hasn't been processing for two days but people can enter orders surely no-one would want me to add another two days on, essentially taking the time without game processing to four days.
Then you need to amend the message that the site displays at the top of the page, when such an incident occurs. Currently, that message says that time will be added to games to compensate, and you've confirmed you don't always do that - so the banner message is very misleading.

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Re: Processing problem

#13 Post by kestasjk » Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:54 pm

Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:57 am
kestasjk wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:25 am
@jamiet The idea is that if the site experiences downtime time will be added to compensate for the down time, but in this case I thought processing had paused but the site had been up the whole time.
If the site hasn't been processing for two days but people can enter orders surely no-one would want me to add another two days on, essentially taking the time without game processing to four days.
Then you need to amend the message that the site displays at the top of the page, when such an incident occurs. Currently, that message says that time will be added to games to compensate, and you've confirmed you don't always do that - so the banner message is very misleading.
This is the message: https://github.com/kestasjk/webDiplomac ... l.php#L686
The last process time was over %s minutes ago (at %s); the server is not processing games until the cause is found and games are given extra time.
To me that means the games will be given extra time to account for the downtime when the server wasn’t available (that’s presumed to be the reason this alarm triggers; why would the last process time be a long time ago unless the server was inaccessible?).
I don’t understand why if the server hadn’t been processing games for 2 days, but it had been online doing nothing but taking orders for 2 days, why anyone would want all games to have to wait another 2 days. What does it compensate for?

Let me know if you’ve got better wording and if it’s clearer we’ll use it, or if there’s a good reason to add double the time. (Is it about short-phase games? Maybe we could do something targeting just short-phase games?)

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Re: Processing problem

#14 Post by Aristocrat » Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:07 am

kestasjk wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 3:54 pm
Jamiet99uk wrote:
Tue Nov 08, 2022 11:57 am
kestasjk wrote:
Mon Nov 07, 2022 8:25 am
@jamiet The idea is that if the site experiences downtime time will be added to compensate for the down time, but in this case I thought processing had paused but the site had been up the whole time.
If the site hasn't been processing for two days but people can enter orders surely no-one would want me to add another two days on, essentially taking the time without game processing to four days.
Then you need to amend the message that the site displays at the top of the page, when such an incident occurs. Currently, that message says that time will be added to games to compensate, and you've confirmed you don't always do that - so the banner message is very misleading.
This is the message: https://github.com/kestasjk/webDiplomac ... l.php#L686
The last process time was over %s minutes ago (at %s); the server is not processing games until the cause is found and games are given extra time.
To me that means the games will be given extra time to account for the downtime when the server wasn’t available (that’s presumed to be the reason this alarm triggers; why would the last process time be a long time ago unless the server was inaccessible?).
I don’t understand why if the server hadn’t been processing games for 2 days, but it had been online doing nothing but taking orders for 2 days, why anyone would want all games to have to wait another 2 days. What does it compensate for?

Let me know if you’ve got better wording and if it’s clearer we’ll use it, or if there’s a good reason to add double the time. (Is it about short-phase games? Maybe we could do something targeting just short-phase games?)
Since I was the individual to raise the question in the first place, I'll answer. I don't think, if the site is taking orders, it needs to extend games after a processing errors. I just think it needs to be consistent; in the past, after a processing error (even with orders being taken), my recollection is that extra time was added to games such that each game reverted to how much time was left at the start of the error. Or some additional amount of time such that you didn't have every stalled game process at once and boot a bunch of folks out.

If I recall correctly, the summer of 2021 saw quite a few processing errors pop up again and again, and each time extra time was added on top of any time already added by the processing error. Even the last time a processing error happened in 2022, we got extra time added on top of the delay; the error message is the same for every situation, so it would be reasonable to assume that the remedy would be as well.

I think this site is the best diplomacy site around, so this is meant to be constructive criticism - WebDip is great! I just want to make it greater. (also, unfortunately my RR slipped due to the latest delay and is now sub-80, so fixing that would be good, too!).
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Re: Processing problem

#15 Post by kestasjk » Wed Nov 16, 2022 9:08 am

Yep yep constructive criticism, frankly any criticism because there’s always a germ of truth, is always welcome. It might be best to scan for all missed turns due to the downtime and remove them all
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