Welcome to Feedback and Bug Reports!

Members can make suggestions for improving the site and improving the forum as well as submit bug reports to be reviewed by our support team here.
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Bladerunners
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Re: Welcome to Feedback and Bug Reports!

#21 Post by Bladerunners » Wed May 26, 2021 2:48 am

my approach now is to cancel every game that italy opens against austria as very unrealistic ... if italy thinks this is optimistic, there is a programming fix needed is all i am saying

Puddle
Posts: 28
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Re: Welcome to Feedback and Bug Reports!

#22 Post by Puddle » Thu May 27, 2021 3:34 pm

I play a lot of Bit games and I'd say I see Italy open against Austria too often, but far short of everytime. In a very small number of instances where Turkey/Russia opens against the other and then don't change course this could work for Italy. In the 1 human/6 bot games an Italian open against Austria is almost never optimal though. I think the issue here is the difference between the circumstances of the sample data vs the circumstances of 1 human/6 bot games, which have different optimal outcome I'd imagine.

Ogion
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Re: Welcome to Feedback and Bug Reports!

#23 Post by Ogion » Thu May 27, 2021 4:10 pm

If I may do a little penance, first, allow me to invite you NOT to cancel those games, because the bot is learning from those games, and it may be that the bot hasn't learned not to attack Italy straight off because everyone is canceling those. Do your part and give the bot some data!

Second, if the bot is opening that way, perhaps it is because it works better than our meta would suggest. Worth taking a look at.
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Bladerunners
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Re: Welcome to Feedback and Bug Reports!

#24 Post by Bladerunners » Sun May 30, 2021 5:14 am

I dont think meta indicates aus doing so well that italy gains from attacking 13 games in a row ;-). Another suggestion - dont let the bots know which is the human player ... as some bots stop playing while others engage the human player. Ex. I’m playing a game as Eng where for several years tky and aus have done nothing but hold. Not seen in real games so not sure how the bots are ‘learning’ that??

Bladerunners
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Re: Welcome to Feedback and Bug Reports!

#25 Post by Bladerunners » Sun May 30, 2021 5:25 am

Fyi. Eng also about as impossible to play as aus. Both ger and fra attack eng in about 90% of games. Minimum. Starting to cancel games as England too with bad starts as otherwise games no fun.

Gandalfthegrey
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Joined: Wed Mar 10, 2021 8:26 am

Re: Welcome to Feedback and Bug Reports!

#26 Post by Gandalfthegrey » Sun May 30, 2021 11:40 am

I don't know what information the bots are supposed to take into consideration, but from my experience the best opening for an Italian bot in a bot game where the human player is Austria is definitely attacking Austria. If Austria survives long enough for Turkey and Russia to be defeated (which they will if Italy helps them against Turkey), it's pretty easy to attack Germany and stab Italy for the solo, as the bots don't create proper stalemate lines. Even if this isn't successful (for example, if there's a particularly strong western alliance), Italy is likely to end up being divided between Austria and France (in the case of an EF or FG) or Austria and England (in the case of an EG). The best way to ensure this doesn't happen from Italy's perspective is to attack Austria with Russia and Turkey, which is basically a death sentence for Austria. (Unless Russia or Turkey sides with Austria, but in that case it's doubly important for Italy to attack Austria). In a normal game, this would result in the Juggernaut taking out Italy, but because bot games draw once the player is eliminated, Italy doesn't have to deal with that punishment. Instead, they end up in a 5 or 6 way draw, which is about as good an outcome as the Italian bot can hope to accomplish.

From what I can see, the only scenario in which the Italian bot shouldn't attack human Austria is if England and Germany are both attacking France at the same time that Russia and Turkey are both attacking Austria, in which case Italy can make gains against France while leaving the human Austria to fend off Russia and Turkey, which prevents Austria from becoming powerful enough to stab Italy. This is the best case scenario for Italy, as it can result in a smaller draw size, but it's not something that the bot can rely on.

Claesar
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Re: Welcome to Feedback and Bug Reports!

#27 Post by Claesar » Sun May 30, 2021 12:00 pm

However, the bots don't know which player is human and which is bot.
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dargorygel
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Re: Welcome to Feedback and Bug Reports!

#28 Post by dargorygel » Thu Jun 03, 2021 4:52 pm

Claesar wrote:
Sun May 30, 2021 12:00 pm
However, the bots don't know which player is human and which is bot.
Well..... They SAY they don't, when we ask them...
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