Proposed change

Members can make suggestions for improving the site and improving the forum as well as submit bug reports to be reviewed by our support team here.
Message
Author
Wusti
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:12 pm
Karma: 152

Re: Proposed change

#21 Post by Wusti » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:25 am

Durga wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:47 am
Wusti wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:43 am
Durga - your opinion only. Last time i checked this site never claimed to be a democracy either. I prefer Open Draw votes as the default. See? Opinions are just like assholes - everyone has one. Why should yours carry more weight?
Fair enough, why do you prefer open draw votes as a default? I think for most people who play diplomacy it seems fairly silly to allow people to publicly display their commitment to the draw. You can't manipulate people in end game if everyone but you is voting draw.
That is BS pure and simple - you're just not doing it right.

Also - you really piss people off when you resort to name calling to make your point. " Stupid" and "silly" aren't logical arguments - they are emotive and immediately devalue everything else you say.

Why don't you just jump up and down and yell and scream - it carries exactly the same weight.

Durga
Posts: 8830
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 4251

Re: Proposed change

#22 Post by Durga » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:35 am

Okay great, but why don't you answer my question on why you like open draw votes

Durga
Posts: 8830
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 4251

Re: Proposed change

#23 Post by Durga » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:38 am

I explained that using the draw vote as an element for diplomacy is bringing in out of game reasons to form a coalition. Engage with that if you disagree. If you want to cry about my attitude, feel free to go do that in your diary or something.

Durga
Posts: 8830
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 4251

Re: Proposed change

#24 Post by Durga » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:42 am

Yigg wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:16 am
Durga wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:46 am
If people are more confused by "hidden" draw votes, they're too stupid to be playing this game.
Look, I don't much care what a game's default setting is. It's a minor detail in the grand scheme of things. But, Durga, I think you're out of line with this comment. If the goal is to attract more players to the game, as I've been led to believe, then suggesting that new players are too stupid to be playing it hardly helps.
I'm doing A LOT to attract more diplomacy players to this dying website, I think it's more insulting to assume that players can't figure out what hidden draw votes mean.

Yigg
Posts: 128
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:56 am
Location: Wisconsin, United States
Karma: 261

Re: Proposed change

#25 Post by Yigg » Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:55 am

I have no doubt that you are doing things to attract more people here. Being insulting is not among them, however, and is counterproductive. Look. You are clearly a leading personality on this site, and in the process of organizing a tournament that could well bring more people here. Your attitude, if anything, is more important than ever. I don't care about HDV default settings. Hell, you may even be right about it. But I do care someone leading the charge to bring more people here is doing so without regard to how their words are coming off as rude. Not to put too fine a point on it, but it's not especially diplomatic.

Durga
Posts: 8830
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 4251

Re: Proposed change

#26 Post by Durga » Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:20 am

I am **this close** to turning into krellin

Claesar
Posts: 1932
Joined: Tue Oct 03, 2017 10:34 am
Karma: 1450

Re: Proposed change

#27 Post by Claesar » Thu Jan 24, 2019 9:31 am

I am also in favour of HDV for my games. I was recently in a game where the other 6 players voted to draw and it fell upon me to prevent this atrocity even though I was already on the ropes. Decided not to play with that group anymore.

Nonetheless I have to agree with Jmo that we'd get a ton of questions from confused members. The mods all have full-time jobs. It makes sense to have public votes as the default option, because it's easier to understand. HDV is available as an option for those that prefer it.

Threatening to turn into Krellin doesn't carry much weight if you do so regularly anyhow ;-)
2

purevital
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:50 pm
Karma: 13

Re: Proposed change

#28 Post by purevital » Thu Jan 24, 2019 10:31 am

jmo1121109 wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:11 am
the problem comes in when a few people are left and everyone says in global "I'm voting draw", and then the mods get questions asking if the game is broken, is it okay to lie about draws, is it okay to send other people screenshots of my draw vote, or demand them in return.
You can lie about drawing, this is a game of lying and backstabbing after all.
It is against the rules to claim that it must be a bug as it gets moderators involved.

Someone in the game just needs to be the grown up and say, "well obviously someone is lying" instead of accusing the game of being broken and messaging the mods. Usually it's not hard to figure out who it is.

I don't know how I feel about HDV being on by default though. Sometimes I have it on and sometimes I have it off, I guess it doesn't really matter.

I'd actually much rather have Anonymous Players on by default though. As I generally play gunboat games where nothing can influence first turn, you can pretty much determine what players are going to do on their first turn by looking at their history.
3

peterwiggin
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 172
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2017 7:55 am
Location: Boston, MA
Karma: 424

Re: Proposed change

#29 Post by peterwiggin » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:43 pm

Durga wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 5:20 am
I am **this close** to turning into krellin
If you turn into krellin jmo will ban you for being a multi and then who will run the ODC?

Wusti
Posts: 270
Joined: Thu Oct 19, 2017 10:12 pm
Karma: 152

Re: Proposed change

#30 Post by Wusti » Thu Jan 24, 2019 12:58 pm

Durga wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 4:35 am
Okay great, but why don't you answer my question on why you like open draw votes
Open draw votes can be used to bait people into relaxing for a start. If you are on the edge of soloing and throw up a public draw vote - it cannot be lied about. You take a risk that you can withdraw it in time, you can have alllies who refuse to draw to throw others off balance - like any other rule/tool in the game public votes give you options you can use... or not.

Most of all for similar reasons to Claesar - I had never heard of let alone played Diplomacy before I stumble on this site (I think I was looking for an old game called Panzer General when I found it) and started playing. Hidden draw votes would've been confusing.

Now cut the fucking tanties please. Thanks in advance.
1

Durga
Posts: 8830
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 4251

Re: Proposed change

#31 Post by Durga » Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:35 pm

Alright, I'm not going to die on this hill. Keep your open draw votes then. But Wusti - - - fuck off ❤️

The Belgian Bulldog
Posts: 52
Joined: Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:33 am
Karma: 111

Re: Proposed change

#32 Post by The Belgian Bulldog » Thu Jan 24, 2019 2:09 pm

Not a mod, since recently an active player on this website. Bearing in mind that these are the glasses through which I consider this question, I am of the same opinion as Durga. Whether or not one is willing to draw should not play a role in who is targeted, hence public draw votes make no sense.

I feel my opinion will not make a difference, but hey : wanted to get it off my chest nevertheless.

Tasnica
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Jan 17, 2018 3:03 am
Karma: 9

Re: Proposed change

#33 Post by Tasnica » Thu Jan 24, 2019 7:21 pm

Wait, why shouldn't Draw votes influence who is targeted? If I have reason to believe that a Draw is the best outcome for me in a game, wouldn't it make sense to target those who stand in the way of a Draw? Do tabletop games have a secret ballot or something rather than open discussion r.e. Draws?

Plus, Draw votes are one of the very few means to communicate in Gunboat, which I find to be interesting.
1

VillageIdiot
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:55 am
Karma: 574

Re: Proposed change

#34 Post by VillageIdiot » Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:27 am

We had a vote on this. Afraid I can’t tell you the results.
1

Ezio
Posts: 1468
Joined: Sat Dec 23, 2017 6:54 am
Karma: 184

Re: Proposed change

#35 Post by Ezio » Fri Jan 25, 2019 6:04 am

VillageIdiot wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 3:27 am
We had a vote on this. Afraid I can’t tell you the results.
You should be able to tell us the results, just not who picked which side eh? Keep it more in line with the FtF hobby.

Octavious
Posts: 2523
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:16 pm
Location: The Five Valleys, Gloucestershire
Karma: 1961
Contact:

Re: Proposed change

#36 Post by Octavious » Fri Jan 25, 2019 10:18 am

In matters like this I tend to take my steer from the reality the game is based on. It doesn't always work, but I find it generally provides a good rule of thumb.

So for this I imagine the great powers of Europe meeting in Versailles to discuss peace, and all agree to it, but someone doesn't put their x on the line, refuses to take ownership of the refusal, and the peace collapses.

Clearly that's a nonsense. There's no real world equivalent of hidden draw votes, and a clear real world equivalent for open draw votes. As such I favour the status quo remaining as our default position.

Hidden draw votes do make for a fun variant, though. :)

Hamilton Brian
Bronze Donator
Bronze Donator
Posts: 2867
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2018 3:21 am
Location: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Karma: 908

Re: Proposed change

#37 Post by Hamilton Brian » Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:25 pm

Would it be possible to have a way to collate games played against other players? For instance, if I typed my name and Octavious, all the games we played together would come up.
2

Kremmen
Posts: 53
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 2:14 am
Karma: 41

Re: Proposed change

#38 Post by Kremmen » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:02 am

Durga wrote:
Thu Jan 24, 2019 1:41 am
End game in non-hdv tends to be just targetting the person who doesn't have their draw vote up. Which, frankly, should just not be allowed.
Wow. 11 messages in and you finally say something meaningful, rather than just saying you'd prefer it because it's better! Why not actually specify why in the first place?

Now that you've stated it, I'd suggest it's trivial. Most games end up the same either way. If an ending has been agreed and one person has a chance of a solo, that person gets targetted. That'd be almost certainly the same person who was sluggish putting their draw vote up. Most people don't lie about draw votes anyhow. Allowing the few that do to try to trick their way to victory has little to no purpose.

VillageIdiot
Posts: 416
Joined: Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:55 am
Karma: 574

Re: Proposed change

#39 Post by VillageIdiot » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:27 am

Hamilton Brian wrote:
Fri Jan 25, 2019 5:25 pm
Would it be possible to have a way to collate games played against other players? For instance, if I typed my name and Octavious, all the games we played together would come up.
They have something like this at PlayDip, I do find I appreciate the feature. There it’s not just games you’ve played against a particular player but can find all games perhaps a specific person has played against another specific person (so you can determine ore-existing relationships) or in a particular game type. It’s neat if you are the type to scout your competition or just determine players who have experience with a variant.

Durga
Posts: 8830
Joined: Fri Sep 29, 2017 6:01 pm
Location: Canada
Karma: 4251

Re: Proposed change

#40 Post by Durga » Sat Jan 26, 2019 5:52 am

@mods - can you at least remove this line from game creation then? "The default settings are fine for new players"

I want to join more public games but they're mostly dss, non-anon, open draw votes.

A game creation system more similar to what playdip has would be incredible. I don't know if we necessarily need an "advanced settings" and then also encouraging new players not to click it.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests