Sandbox feature

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kestasjk
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Sandbox feature

#1 Post by kestasjk » Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:23 am

I often hear about the sandbox feature on backstabbr, but I've never really understood the appear / utility. It'd be pretty easy to do, but would people find it useful? What do people use it for?

Just thinking ahead a bit, there's obviously several more important things on the todo list

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Re: Sandbox feature

#2 Post by Flame » Tue Mar 07, 2023 12:21 pm

kestasjk wrote:
Tue Mar 07, 2023 9:23 am
I often hear about the sandbox feature on backstabbr, but I've never really understood the appear / utility. It'd be pretty easy to do, but would people find it useful? What do people use it for?

Just thinking ahead a bit, there's obviously several more important things on the todo list
I don't know what it means when you speak about backstabbr-sandbox.
But if to speak about the sandbox itself I think it's very useful in FTF-games and to simulate your move for rookie players when they doubt about the future move processing (understanding game rules and rule-paradoxes).
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Re: Sandbox feature

#3 Post by Peregrine Falcon » Tue Mar 07, 2023 2:56 pm

The key feature if a sandbox is implemented is to have the ability to export a game state to the sandbox, for the reasons Flame noted. New players may be uncertain about how their orders could resolve; a sandbox would give them a chance to see. But also for high-level players, it becomes important to simulate possible sets of moves, sometimes several years into the game's future; a sandbox also makes this easier. For this second function, my current method is to pull up a drawing app on my computer and do it manually. I've also seen the backstabbr sandbox used for keeping track of board states for FtF games; having the potential to draw those people to webDip would be nice

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Re: Sandbox feature

#4 Post by kestasjk » Thu Mar 09, 2023 1:01 am

Righto, making good progress on this, it's working well, last thing to do is get builds working properly in the point and click UI and it should be ready:
c.png
B.png
A.png
Will probably add another option under the games menu for people to create new sandboxes.

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Re: Sandbox feature

#5 Post by jmo1121109 » Thu Mar 09, 2023 2:30 am

Having a sandbox is the main reason that the In person Diplomacy lobby uses other sites over ours. If it was made in a way to allow easy tournament game entry by 1 person it would be extremely valuable.
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Re: Sandbox feature

#6 Post by JECE » Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:55 am

I think that it is a good idea to have a sandbox. I found this sandbox very helpful when analyzing complicated board states:
http://gamesbyemail.com/Games/Politics/Judge

In case it helps, a decade ago webDip user SunZi released "Little Dipper", a useful Android app Diplomacy sandbox based on webDip code. It's not as useful today since the app was designed to use the menu button that Android got rid of, but you can still find SunZi's app published on GetJar, where it is free to download: http://www.getjar.com/mobile/388543/Little-Dipper/
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Re: Sandbox feature

#7 Post by ShipOfTheseus » Thu Mar 09, 2023 9:04 am

I love the Sandbox feature over at Backstabbr. Definitely great for learning how to play Dip.

The Sandbox feature that Backstabbr doesn't have? The ability to just set up a sandbox by moving pieces into particular spots. Backstabbr requires you to actually play through from Spring 1901.

But what if I'm curious about a particular scenario? I can't just move the pieces into position and then execute those orders. That would be fantastic.

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Re: Sandbox feature

#8 Post by kestasjk » Thu Mar 09, 2023 12:10 pm

JECE wrote:
Thu Mar 09, 2023 4:55 am
I think that it is a good idea to have a sandbox. I found this sandbox very helpful when analyzing complicated board states:
http://gamesbyemail.com/Games/Politics/Judge

In case it helps, a decade ago webDip user SunZi released "Little Dipper", a useful Android app Diplomacy sandbox based on webDip code. It's not as useful today since the app was designed to use the menu button that Android got rid of, but you can still find SunZi's app published on GetJar, where it is free to download: http://www.getjar.com/mobile/388543/Little-Dipper/
Wow, never knew about that.. I wonder how they made a webDip based android app..

I've deployed a version of the sandbox where you copy a game and can then play it, but I've not completed the builds phase yet and have fully tested, wanted to get a couple of other changes pushed through.

Feel free to give it a go but don't expect it to be 100% quite yet.

Was good to change the React/TypeScript point and click UI for the first time; it's a pretty nice framework

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Re: Sandbox feature

#9 Post by kestasjk » Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:00 am

I've added a link to create new sandbox games at the top under Games, and at the bottom of any game you can click "Copy to sandbox".
Within a sandbox game you can click "Move sandbox back a turn" to go back a turn, and "Delete sandbox" when you're done.

Everything seems to be working except for the builds phase in the point and click UI, which will need a bit more work, and making it so you can do the sandbox operations via the point and click UI. It should be usable for copying a game you're in, trying some things out, then closing it off.

Any issues let me know. Still need to add the ability to select which units you want to create at startup

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Re: Sandbox feature

#10 Post by Flame » Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:57 am

kestasjk wrote:
Fri Mar 10, 2023 11:00 am
I've added a link to create new sandbox games at the top under Games, and at the bottom of any game you can click "Copy to sandbox".
Within a sandbox game you can click "Move sandbox back a turn" to go back a turn, and "Delete sandbox" when you're done.

Everything seems to be working except for the builds phase in the point and click UI, which will need a bit more work, and making it so you can do the sandbox operations via the point and click UI. It should be usable for copying a game you're in, trying some things out, then closing it off.

Any issues let me know. Still need to add the ability to select which units you want to create at startup
Great!!! But we got DB marks for the sandbox-game: Bot Game, Unranked, Wait for orders, Sandbox game.
Is it ok when we use Bot Game and Sandbox at the same time? I think it doubles the sense. Only Sandbox should be in the list of DB marks? No?
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Re: Sandbox feature

#11 Post by kestasjk » Fri Mar 10, 2023 3:45 pm

Ah yeah, good point. Bot games and sandbox games behave similarly internally so sandbox games are also tagged as bot games.

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