The standpoint from which Atheism operates is that there is no God. That's all there is to it. What that implies for the rest of the worldview is rather interesting. Sort of? Atheism is a lack of belief in a God who created the world and is still hanging around ruling things and interacting with pe...

Uh oh, we have another contender. Very good point, and the thing is, you are making the same point the captain made before, but using it against him. This is a great thread. Difference is, my point is that Atheism gives no standard to tell who is right. I'm claiming that reading the Bible is the st...

Thank you.

I take it back. Jamie maybe is not a mystic.

I'll take that as a concession if you refuse to debate my main points. No, my position is that you are making an invalid comparison. You may compare atheism to cheese and conclude that atheism is a poor source of dietary calcium, but so what? The comparison is between two worldviews. Those worldvie...

wait, what? Yes, social customs, and laws are might right, but an individual's morality comes from within. If one chooses to be a murderer and finds virtue in it, as those school shooters did, then that is their morality, right? So where does might makes right work with this?

A perfect example of how the Bible provides nothing like objective moral guidance :) This idea that he gave of the Jewish approach is very clearly anti-Biblical. It doesn't require an interpretation to read that the Bible says to love your enemies. This is the hubris that bothers me. Your interpret...

A lot of good that does when they will kill you as you love them. Many of the folks Hamas killed were Israeli peaceniks who opposed the Israeli government's harsh treatment of Palestinians. I like the Jewish approach: "If you know your enemy is going to kill you tomorrow, kill them today." Your bod...

I meant anyone who considers their own moral views as absolute and denies other views their legitimacy (crusaders, jihadists, fascists, communists etc.). Maybe that the world would be a better place (I doubt it) if we all held the same moral code (Chritianity as proposed here). But this isn’t the c...

- Utilitarianism: This ethical framework objectively assesses actions based on their impact on overall well-being. Murder is universally condemned within this framework because it causes suffering and diminishes happiness, not just for the individual but for society as a whole. I am working, so can...

The trouble with your whole argument is that it is based on everyone agreeing with you. You are saying that each individual has their personal morals, but you have no method of determining what to do when personal morals come into conflict. What if someone disagrees with what you cited as a majorit...

Do you not realize that all you are saying is that murder being wrong is a part of an ultimate moral standard? You are saying that it will always be true that murder is evil, no matter what. I agree, because the Bible agrees. You agree, because you say so. You are simply placing yourself as your ul...

Humans corrupt things. Governments corrupt things even faster. If it were just up l to that I would say you might be right. ... That said, here is my rationale to the contrary: If the God of the Old Testament is the same God as of the New, then there are two things to be considered: 1) God works of...

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First of all, thank you for the compliments. I do not deserve such praise. I have heard many dispute the authenticity of the Gospels we have now, and I am hesitant to throw them and all of Paul's writings aside (as I'm sure you or anyone else would be). That side, I would like to know more of the s...

There exist ultimate standards aplenty, such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights that just celebrated its 75th anniversary within the last week. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights doesn't actually establish morality, just states rights belonging to a given moral code. Also, it only ...

My solution is the Bible. Not a majority, societal decision, or might makes right. I'm saying that if we remove all ultimate standards, such as the Bible, then there is no way to resolve conflicts of morals between individuals or societies. None of you may think similarly to a murderer. However, yo...

The "moral code" of a very small minority of people who have chosen to breach some of society's most basic conventions does not need to be respected. So we put them in jail. So when slavery abolitionists were a minority, was slavery moral? Before support for the LGBTQ movement was a majority, the s...

This is a really good discussion. I don't have an answer to this. You end up with two societies that want each other dead. I guess then they fight, kill and destroy each other, and then the fighting is over, and then we make art and play diplomacy again. "For everything there is a season, and a tim...

Jamiet99uk wrote: ↑

Fri Dec 15, 2023 1:03 am

In any case, I contest the use of the word "many". People intent on, or willing to carry out murder are a very small minority indeed in any society.

Sometimes, though, it is an entire society, not a minority in a society. That is the problem.