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by Hamilton Brian » Sun Dec 09, 2018 5:22 pm
by The Hanged Man » Sun Dec 02, 2018 6:14 am
by VillageIdiot » Sat Dec 01, 2018 7:17 am
by Dejan0707 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 11:42 am
by goldfinger0303 » Fri Nov 30, 2018 8:12 am
by Halt » Fri Nov 30, 2018 2:26 am
Yigg wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:02 am The German blitz for survival seemed early to me, I would really like to think that through some more. On hindsight, I probably agree that my moves were wrong. 1) At the time, I was motivated by not having too much time to think of the game IRL and so decided that this was the quickest solution. 2) In my own estimation, trying to hold the line somehow would end up with me being killed at the end of the game as France and Russia worked together to lessen the draw. 3) I was interested in seeing how a game like this would play out and I suppose was influenced a bit in a "try it for science" sort of way. A strategy of forcing a draw and getting a survive by "throwing" might still be feasible, but probably requires a lot more fine tuning before being even close to practical. Ultimately, my key takeaway from this exercise is that the initiator of such a strategy needs to remain in control of the board's development, something I sacrificed way too early when committing to this. Yigg wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:02 am And the over commit to Turkey I think seemed necessary, from your perspective. You needed builds, and where else were you going to get them from? What REALLY hurt was Germany taking St.P in retreat, though. To keep St.P, you needed a fleet build to put there, and that retreat pretty much sealed that deal. This was motivated by the disaster of 1907 which would have left me with no builds. Perhaps keeping the North Sea Fleet might have been the better move and I debated with myself heavily when deciding the disband, but was unsure if such a thing would utterly kill any chance I had at a theoretical draw. VillageIdiot wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:19 am I'm not convinced that Turkey's elimination was that necessary at the time. The other questionable decision was the Germany destroy in Berlin and keeping Finland at end of 1906. Suppose it could have worked at well had that German North Sea fleet been kept but ultimately it was tremendously problematic. What was the thinking there? If I recall correctly, the idea was to achieve local numerical superiority in the Scandinavian front and from that pivot, destabilize France's push into central Europe. One of the biggest weaknesses of coalitions in public press is that the need to communicate in order to coordinate leaves any such coordination functionally meaningless. Either the press is clear enough that the opponent can work it out, hence unless the plans cannot be stopped by any possible move order, it can be easily countered. Or the press is vague enough that coordination fails. The solution to this was to limit the need for coordination as much as possible. In that regard, I decided that having "spheres of influence" would be the way forward, with Russia solely in charge of the Berlin-Munich front, myself in Scandinavia, Italy in the south. That we were so outguessed by France in the disaster of 1907 stumped me and was worse than even my worst case scenarios for that year. After it happened, I was fairly convinced the game was lost. France has mentioned part of his ability to do so was from our press conversation, and I think that's a fair assumption to make. I had significant doubts about Italy's plans, as they were discussed openly, hence already compromised. But it was also a time when Italy / Russia seemed to have doubts over my commitment to the cause, and I was unsure if I could afford to ignore their advice from a diplomatic perspective. It was a large mistake, I think perhaps my largest this game.
The German blitz for survival seemed early to me, I would really like to think that through some more.
Yigg wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:02 am And the over commit to Turkey I think seemed necessary, from your perspective. You needed builds, and where else were you going to get them from? What REALLY hurt was Germany taking St.P in retreat, though. To keep St.P, you needed a fleet build to put there, and that retreat pretty much sealed that deal.
VillageIdiot wrote: ↑Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:19 am I'm not convinced that Turkey's elimination was that necessary at the time. The other questionable decision was the Germany destroy in Berlin and keeping Finland at end of 1906. Suppose it could have worked at well had that German North Sea fleet been kept but ultimately it was tremendously problematic. What was the thinking there?
by Yigg » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:53 am
by Yigg » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:48 am
Balki Bartokomous wrote: ↑Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:50 pm Yigg, Thanks very much for beginning this discussion. And let me say at the outset that it was an absolute pleasure to play with you. I completely agree that this was a top quality game and a joy to play. I felt that way right up until the moment you left it. Clever press, challenging and surprising moves, complicated board dynamics. I was having a lot of fun.
I'll also note at the start that you played an excellent game. You were very good at making me (and others) feel like you were on our side, while not offending anyone else. That's not easy at all in a public press game. You managed to seize a clear board-dominating position while staying mostly in everyone's good graces, which is a great accomplishment in any game. Also, your Belgium deal with Germany in 1901 was nothing short of brilliant. That was a major turning point that put you in a position to dominate the West. Your fast start was self-made.
Regarding your specific question, it's a bit difficult to answer in retrospect. I had a lot of things in my head in that moment, and I'm trying to sort them out. Clearly, as we can all see what the outcome of the game was, your move turned out well. And so it is hard to find much fault with it. But your question is more about what I would do if I were in your shoes there. I am quite certain I would not have built F Mar. At that time, you had turned on Germany, but Germany had not yet disbanded all his western forces (a move that shocked me at the time, and that I would not have predicted in your shoes). I see your reasoning in wanting to keep me from taking out Turkey, but you only had 9 centers at that point, and no other potential ally. When I was telling you that I thought your solo move was way premature, I meant that sincerely. I believed that it was. You made tons of smart decisions in the game, but I think you had a bit of luck when your stab of me happened to coincide with Germany disbanding his 3 western-most units. So, were I in your shoes, I would have made a decision to stab Germany or Italy, and I would have been pretty committed to work with the other guy, trying to ensure that "the other guy" would stick with me and commit forces elsewhere. There were a few times in the game that I thought you might stab me, but that time was not it (and you didn't really get the benefit of a surprise because you did it on a build phase).
All that said, France ended up with a solo. So, the fact that I would have played that move differently may just reveal me to be the lesser player.
by VillageIdiot » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:19 am
by Yigg » Fri Nov 30, 2018 1:02 am
DrCJG wrote: ↑Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:02 pm Well played, Yigg. I hope to get a chance to add to the substantive discussion soon and before the game is completely stale.
I liked (from Russian perspective) the 1905 build in Brest... I too was a little worried about Italy getting too much of Turkey and I felt safer with more tension between you and Italy... even then you could have swayed me.
I'm still not convinced that I over committed to Turkey's elimination and would be happy to debate the topic... given the result, perhaps I put too much faith in being able to communicate in public press... I think there were several ways to still hold the solo line while eliminating Turkey but I got outplayed Autumn 1907 and Balki and I completely missed each other Spring 1908... but I still think the critical mistake was autumn 1906's loss of MUN.
by Balki Bartokomous » Thu Nov 29, 2018 8:50 pm
by Mercy » Thu Nov 29, 2018 7:39 pm
by foodcoats » Thu Nov 29, 2018 5:21 pm
by DrCJG » Thu Nov 29, 2018 2:02 pm
by Yigg » Thu Nov 29, 2018 1:53 pm
by VillageIdiot » Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:23 am
by Yigg » Thu Nov 29, 2018 12:40 am
by Dejan0707 » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:16 pm
by peterwiggin » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:14 pm
by Durga » Wed Nov 28, 2018 8:01 pm
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