Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

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Expand view Topic review: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by Doom427 » Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:30 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:36 am
It is absolutely nuts how anyone non-white playing the villain role is being seen an racist at the moment. There was recently outrage over the Netflix series Wednesday because two of the mean kids were black...and that must have been driven by racism:

https://nypost.com/2022/11/30/tim-burto ... s-bullies/

It has got so bad that non-white actors are being shut out of villain parts because Hollywood has got scared of being called racist:

https://news.yahoo.com/want-play-more-b ... 46926.html
The CEO of hollywood LLC sees this while playing diplomacy and decides to announce a big hiring of Villains of Color. Just to make sure he can reach Flash2015, he requires everyone who works on any film to say publicly that the actor they brought on was picked because of their race, that way Flash can go to the movies confident that Hollywood is respecting actors of color and their struggle.

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by flash2015 » Sat Jan 14, 2023 2:36 am

It is absolutely nuts how anyone non-white playing the villain role is being seen an racist at the moment. There was recently outrage over the Netflix series Wednesday because two of the mean kids were black...and that must have been driven by racism:

https://nypost.com/2022/11/30/tim-burto ... s-bullies/

It has got so bad that non-white actors are being shut out of villain parts because Hollywood has got scared of being called racist:

https://news.yahoo.com/want-play-more-b ... 46926.html

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by MajorMitchell » Mon Oct 24, 2022 8:22 am

Whatever Marvel Comical Universe is up to is of little interest to me, they've made their choices, and audiences will, or will not choose to pay to see it's garish horrors. My point is that I allow the MCU producers make their choices and they reap the consequences, amd i expect similar freedom to make my choices.
There are boundaries set by service providers, nation states, the constant tension between protecting our communities balanced with granting freedoms of expressions.
In the private sector, it's the investors who should determine how they want to risk and perhaps lose their money. Not some committeee of self appointed stickybeaks on a social.network whining and feeling virtuous.

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by orathaic » Sun Oct 23, 2022 10:29 am

Yeah, I'm not sure where artistic freedom comes i to this. Artists are free to starve if they create things which nobody is interested in (except in Ireland where they are trialing a basic Income for Artists). And they are free to sign up to work for faceless multinational corporations and make as much money as their craft will allow.

Lots of freedom for Artists, but they are constrained by their culture. I saw one sculptor this year made a Púca (traditional Irish goblin creature) and then the local Council refused to put it up (because it was rather ugly) https://www.rte.ie/news/regional/2022/0 ... nnistymon/

Artists not getting paid for 'ugly' works just seems the norm.

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by worcej » Sat Oct 22, 2022 10:23 pm

MajorMitchell wrote:
Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:31 pm
What about Artistic freedom?
The freedom of an artist to have and make their artistic choices unfettered by the moral and social norms?
Artists rarely force an audience to look.at or try to force the audience to try to understand their art.
Artist are artists to fulfill their needs, not the needs of the audience?
Art can be a tool to reassure the audience in their belief systems, or a tool to challenge those belief systems.
Do not assume that artists exist to reinforce the belief systems of all audiences, it is illogical, and beware of attempting to force artists to serve the purposes of the state or the majority, their orthodox value and belief systems
I’d consider your viewpoint more if it wasn’t MCU content, which is all about making money not artistic freedoms

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by MajorMitchell » Sat Oct 22, 2022 9:31 pm

What about Artistic freedom?
The freedom of an artist to have and make their artistic choices unfettered by the moral and social norms?
Artists rarely force an audience to look.at or try to force the audience to try to understand their art.
Artist are artists to fulfill their needs, not the needs of the audience?
Art can be a tool to reassure the audience in their belief systems, or a tool to challenge those belief systems.
Do not assume that artists exist to reinforce the belief systems of all audiences, it is illogical, and beware of attempting to force artists to serve the purposes of the state or the majority, their orthodox value and belief systems

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by kestasjk » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:57 am

Doom427 wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:50 pm
Damn, I need to stop revealing so much info about myself on this forum purely to win stupid internet debates.

I've given the internet a dozen weakness to hit me now.
Your dad liking the last Airbender movie? :| I’ll have restraint and not use that against you

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by kestasjk » Sat Oct 22, 2022 3:22 am

Octavious wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:43 pm
kestasjk wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:31 am
Whether it’s the truth or not I think it’s worth discussing, and I’d be pretty disgusted to see someone banned because you’re .. what’s the wordIng.. being bigoted against a certain group (in this case Scientologists).. but Scientologists aren’t a sympathetic group so I’m sure you’re safe.
Quite possibly true, although having protection in place only for sympathetic groups is in itself troubling. If we were to turn the clocks back 100 years there was little public sympathy for Jews, which enabled various governments of the time to effectively scapegoat them. And it is entirely possible that a similar fall from public sympathy could happen again in the future.
Right that’s my point; I’m not defending it I’m saying that’s the sad reality right now.

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by orathaic » Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:51 pm

Octavious wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:25 pm
orathaic wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:09 pm
Religions don't deserve any more special protections than, for example a government or charitable organisation.
Whilst I may agree with such a statement, legally it seems detached from reality.

EU Charter of Fundamental Rights
Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited.


Religious belief is very much a protected characteristic, on a par with sex, race and disability. I agree with you that the EU charter of Fundamental Rights is flawed, but it is what it is
I think there is a difference between, for example, criticising embezzolment and psychological manipulation performed by the Church of Scientology, and discriminating against individuals who happen to hold erroneous beliefs.

And i suspect it is one which is not clearly spelled out in law, but i think we agree more on this than not.

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by worcej » Fri Oct 21, 2022 11:40 pm

Chaqa wrote:
Thu Sep 01, 2022 8:58 pm
Update:

Twerking She-Hulk is... just...

wtf
Yeah… it’s bad writing

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by Octavious » Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:25 pm

orathaic wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:09 pm
Religions don't deserve any more special protections than, for example a government or charitable organisation.
Whilst I may agree with such a statement, legally it seems detached from reality.

EU Charter of Fundamental Rights
Any discrimination based on any ground such as sex, race, colour, ethnic or social origin, genetic features, language, religion or belief, political or any other opinion, membership of a national minority, property, birth, disability, age or sexual orientation shall be prohibited.


Religious belief is very much a protected characteristic, on a par with sex, race and disability. I agree with you that the EU charter of Fundamental Rights is flawed, but it is what it is

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by orathaic » Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:13 pm

kestasjk wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:32 am
orathaic wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 12:42 am
There are legitimate reasons why some people may get upset with some of these casting choices.
What might qualify as a legitimate reason exactly? Black actors have every right to have their talent demonstrated (same with other crew members, writers, directors etc.) What legitimate reason is there to deny this fact, without being racist?
It’s using an actor’s race as a cheap marketing gimmick. Do you think Disney made this casting choice without any thought as to this person’s skin colour? If yes you’re very naive, if not it’s using race to sell movie tickets.

Don’t be so sure that you have the moral high ground; throwing around accusations of racism freely while supporting Disney Corporation in adding a token black actor to increase the demographic appeal and awareness of their crappy remake.. :P


Anyone who sees this because Disney cast a black actor and think it’s progressive is a complete tool in my humble opinion (I’m not saying anyone here fits that category, even though they’re defending it). The same kind of person who in the 1940’s would’ve watched Disney’s Songs of the South and considered it partaking in black culture.
The fact that some Disney executives may be exactly this cynical doesn't detract from the effects.

Which includes paying a black actress for the role, inspiring a huge number of children in the audience who haven't seen themselves represented, demonstrating it is possible to make successful movie while recasting a white animated character with a person of colour.

And lastly, i am not defending Disney, their decision should be precisely what they think will make them the most money. They are not in the business of making art for the cultural benefit of others, apart from as a side effect of capitalism. But i can see that most criticism of their decision is based solely on racism without defending Disney's decision. I would happily ignore them/remain entirely neutral on this decision.

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by orathaic » Fri Oct 21, 2022 6:09 pm

Religions don't deserve any more special protections than, for example a government or charitable organisation.

They have power and influence over people, this power should not be abused. And we should be free to call them out when we see it being absued.

That said, there is a difference between criticising the behaviour of an organisation and criticising people for who they are (like being born into a Jewish family, or with black skin).

One is a choice, which can be changed by vocal criticism (though how much posting on webdip's politics forum will change is debatable) the other is a something which can only he changed by committing genocide.

(See also #BlackLifesMatter vs #DefundThePolice, genocide vs redundancy)

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by Octavious » Fri Oct 21, 2022 3:43 pm

kestasjk wrote:
Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:31 am
Whether it’s the truth or not I think it’s worth discussing, and I’d be pretty disgusted to see someone banned because you’re .. what’s the wordIng.. being bigoted against a certain group (in this case Scientologists).. but Scientologists aren’t a sympathetic group so I’m sure you’re safe.
Quite possibly true, although having protection in place only for sympathetic groups is in itself troubling. If we were to turn the clocks back 100 years there was little public sympathy for Jews, which enabled various governments of the time to effectively scapegoat them. And it is entirely possible that a similar fall from public sympathy could happen again in the future.

If you believe both that Scientology is a religion and religions must be protected from harsh criticism then surely there's not a great deal of room for flexibility. That I believe neither of those things to be true is immaterial. You could argue with some legitimacy that Scientology's status as a religion is disputed, and as such doesn't qualify for protection. However, if we ever enter a time when both North America and the EU declare it to be a religion subject to the same protections other religions enjoy, will me saying it's a dangerous cult that should be shut down become a punishable offence?

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by MajorMitchell » Fri Oct 21, 2022 12:58 pm

It is interesting reading the comments about casting choices.
I have the rare good fortune of being an embryonic actor and comedian with extra roles in one 24 minute short movie recently released on Youtube titled
Formosus, the Mystic and the Witch
and a similar current participation in a Horror feature film project, yes, Darlings the Director Nate has invited me back fo a day of filming next wednesday;
so am one of the few actual film actors in this discussion.

One of the best skits written and performed by Peter Cook and Dudley Moore is the famous Dudley as a one legged actor insisting his Agent Peter get him an audition to play Tarzan in a film.(or Superman)

If a film Director offered me a role as a coloured woman superhero in a film it would certainly be a test of my acting abilities and until I read the script could not either refuse or discuss the possibilities or accept

Thankfully there's very few stakeholders in a film project apart from the Producer and Director who get influence over most casting decisions, it is not an environment for committee decision making, it is an environment suited to artistic dictators

I might work on a comedy routine about the problems of playing a politically imcorrect old predator white man, it's so predictable having to lecherously grope young actors and then feign surprise when the actor cops arrive to save the little darlings, it is awfully passé darlings and not much of an acting challenge for me compared to playing SuperWoman or Camilla Parker Bowles or the Empress Vatherine the Great of Russia.

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by kestasjk » Fri Oct 21, 2022 10:31 am

Octavious wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:48 pm
Because I'm in that sort of mood today, let's highlight one problematic area with a fun demonstration.

If someone was to say that Scientology is not a religion, but a dangerous cult led by a mix of fraudsters and the sort of bastards that warp people's minds to the point of inducing suicide, would this be an example of religious bigotry and a punishable offence (as Scientology is recognised as a legitimate religion by several Western nations) or would it be seen as simply speaking the truth and condemning a dangerous and often criminal organisation (in line with the views of the French government represented by the observatoire interministériel sur les sectes and interministérielle de lutte contre les sectes)?

Let's find out :-)

Scientology is not a religion, but a dangerous cult led by a mix of fraudsters and the sort of bastards that warp people's minds to the point of inducing suicide. I firmly believe this to be true, and encourage all of us to take every action permitted by law to help eradicate this organisation.
Whether it’s the truth or not I think it’s worth discussing, and I’d be pretty disgusted to see someone banned because you’re .. what’s the wordIng.. being bigoted against a certain group (in this case Scientologists).. but Scientologists aren’t a sympathetic group so I’m sure you’re safe.

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by flash2015 » Fri Oct 21, 2022 1:24 am

Doom427 wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:55 pm
I simply am making the most obvious point in the world- even if it's a separate and (slightly) hidden channel, the politics forum exists as part of the same website. I get the sense that this won't sink in unless I simply state it as fact- women won't come to the website to play a board game if they know the forum discusses if women should stay in the kitchen.

While you might consider answering the question of if women should stay in the kitchen is more important than women playing diplomacy on this website dedicated to playing diplomacy, I personally come here to play a board game, not debate if I'd be happier barefoot and pregnant. But I personally probably wouldn't tell another women to join the website and play a few games because I can't in good conscience introduce them to an environment like that. All I was saying was I understand why that conversation might be inappropriate here.
I think you are wildly overstating the issue. You are making it sound like if he wasn't immediately banned the Politics section was about to turn into a misogynistic hellhole. It was one guy in one thread. Everyone that interacted with him disagreed with him and I am quite confident that everyone else that wrote a message on this topic disagreed with him too. He got banned so quick I didn't even have a chance to interact with him.

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by flash2015 » Thu Oct 20, 2022 10:08 pm

Doom427 wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:55 pm
But further I find this concern trolling from you a little insulting to be honest. I engaged with Mr. Biblical womanhood on those exact political discussions! I don't remember you saying any shit about it, but now you're complaining that we won't have a discussion about it?

If you wanted to discuss it, why weren't you engaging with it then? I made it clear I thought it was fine because I bothered to talk and respond. I actually did something to encourage the stupid conversation that you now think is critical to have.

Making a sad face and telling me "We have to talk to patriarchy dude, why can't we" when I talked to him and you fucking didn't? Come on.
I think this is a bit unfair. It was around 16 hours between his first message and the time he was banned. Difficult for me to interact with him if he was banned before I even paid attention to his messages...unless you expect me to be responding to messages here 24/7.

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by Doom427 » Thu Oct 20, 2022 7:55 pm

flash2015 wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:14 pm

I understand that some people may not want to see this Political discussion, especially when views are out of the mainstream. This is why I thought the Politics group was created. It is purposely hidden from the front page to provide some more freedom to explore these Political arguments without upsetting people that aren't interested. You don't think it is hidden enough?

If this is still not OK, where do you think these sort of discussions should happen? Again, I don't think we solve these problems by just banning discussion...or calling those with extreme views (or even just Trump supporters) idiots, fascists, nazis etc. I run my own Politics group on NextDoor where I see people do that...the person they direct the insult to responds in kind then I get requests YOU MUST BAN THIS PERSON! I believe the extreme views often come from some underlying issues, they are really just a symptom of something else. The only way you get to the underlying issue is by being open to some of these discussions.

You could try and make the sperm bank argument. I am sure people will understand that it is in jest. This is what people like brainbomb liked to do...and what Fluminator does to a lesser extent. I believe these are the sort of discussions Octavious misses from the old forum.
I simply am making the most obvious point in the world- even if it's a separate and (slightly) hidden channel, the politics forum exists as part of the same website. I get the sense that this won't sink in unless I simply state it as fact- women won't come to the website to play a board game if they know the forum discusses if women should stay in the kitchen.

While you might consider answering the question of if women should stay in the kitchen is more important than women playing diplomacy on this website dedicated to playing diplomacy, I personally come here to play a board game, not debate if I'd be happier barefoot and pregnant. But I personally probably wouldn't tell another women to join the website and play a few games because I can't in good conscience introduce them to an environment like that. All I was saying was I understand why that conversation might be inappropriate here.

But further I find this concern trolling from you a little insulting to be honest. I engaged with Mr. Biblical womanhood on those exact political discussions! I don't remember you saying any shit about it, but now you're complaining that we won't have a discussion about it?

If you wanted to discuss it, why weren't you engaging with it then? I made it clear I thought it was fine because I bothered to talk and respond. I actually did something to encourage the stupid conversation that you now think is critical to have.

Making a sad face and telling me "We have to talk to patriarchy dude, why can't we" when I talked to him and you fucking didn't? Come on.

Re: Are female superhero movies unpopular because…

by flash2015 » Thu Oct 20, 2022 5:14 pm

Doom427 wrote:
Thu Oct 20, 2022 12:43 pm
I was fine with him being around but I'm not gonna cry any tears he got banned. Maybe I would care if I got the sense there was any "Radicals" on the other side but the other side has basically just been posting mainstream accepted rhetoric that most people agree with (seriously - in the real world people are ok with this and have been forever)

Having a guy who full-throatedly believes patriarchy is good and we need to embrace it more being accepted in a thread where the alternative side is... Black Mermaid is ok? White men aren't under attack? Sends a message about what is accepted on this website.

I mean, if I posted that I earnestly and seriously believe all men should be put to cryogenic sleep and used as sperm banks for the lesbian feminist utopia, well, I wouldn't even need to be banned- I would be run out by everyone on the forum.

If free and open debate is just a spectrum between conservative liberals and arch conservative fascists, well, I don't think you'd see many who aren't crochety old white dudes come to the website for even playing the game. Not that all that many others come to the website at all anyway.
I understand that some people may not want to see this Political discussion, especially when views are out of the mainstream. This is why I thought the Politics group was created. It is purposely hidden from the front page to provide some more freedom to explore these Political arguments without upsetting people that aren't interested. You don't think it is hidden enough?

If this is still not OK, where do you think these sort of discussions should happen? Again, I don't think we solve these problems by just banning discussion...or calling those with extreme views (or even just Trump supporters) idiots, fascists, nazis etc. I run my own Politics group on NextDoor where I see people do that...the person they direct the insult to responds in kind then I get requests YOU MUST BAN THIS PERSON! I believe the extreme views often come from some underlying issues, they are really just a symptom of something else. The only way you get to the underlying issue is by being open to some of these discussions.

You could try and make the sperm bank argument. I am sure people will understand that it is in jest. This is what people like brainbomb liked to do...and what Fluminator does to a lesser extent. I believe these are the sort of discussions Octavious misses from the old forum.

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