Question about support

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fourofswords
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Question about support

#1 Post by fourofswords » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:46 am

I was under this impression: If a unit is ordered to move, and it is attacked in its original place, it must defend. Therefore, another unit can be ordered to support it in holding. I am in another dip club and I was just told that if a unit moves, it cannot be supported to hold, even if attacked. Can someone please clarify?

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dargorygel
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Re: Question about support

#2 Post by dargorygel » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:22 pm

A unit's support is either in holding or moving. If the unit being supported is moving, the only support that counts is support in moving. If the unit being supported is NOT moving, it must be supported 'holding' for the support to possibly have effect.

Wow... how wordy.
In short, nope. When you order a unit to move, it cannot be supported as if it were holding.

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dargorygel
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Re: Question about support

#3 Post by dargorygel » Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:25 pm

perhaps, fourofswords... you were thinking about a unit ordered to SUPPORT an attack. THAT unit, if attacked, instead merely defends, and CAN be supported in place. The supporting-the-attack unit... not the unit actually moving.

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Re: Question about support

#4 Post by fourofswords » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:15 pm

thanks for the 2 answers so far. they seem contradictory. let me clarify the situation: My Unit A is moving. My unit B is ordered to support that unit. I did not designate that Unit B is supporting a Hold. Unit B is definitely not ordered to support Unit A's move/attack. Unit B is merely ordered to support unit A. I thought that if unit A is attacked, unit B supports it as if unit A was holding based on the fact that a unit attacked must defend instead of move. Now if it possible, lol, can anyone clarify?

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Re: Question about support

#5 Post by BananaFang » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:39 pm

On webdip (and others) supports are clarified into "support move" and "support hold". From the rulebook:
Writing a support order
1. Write your unit type (A or F).
2. Then write the province where your unit is located. 3. Then, write an “S” (for Support).
4.Finally, write the type, current location, and
destination of the unit receiving support (if the supported unit is moving).
Example: “A Par S A Mar–Bur” orders an Army in Paris to support an Army in Marseilles moving into Burgundy.
Valid:
A Par S A Mar–Bur
A Mar-Bur

Valid:
A Par S A Mar holds
A Mar holds

What you are trying to do is this:
A Par S Mar
A Mar-Bur

"A Par S Mar" is ambiguous and invalid because you didn't specify what Mar is doing.

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dargorygel
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Re: Question about support

#6 Post by dargorygel » Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:55 pm

fourofswords wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:15 pm
thanks for the 2 answers so far. they seem contradictory. let me clarify the situation: My Unit A is moving. My unit B is ordered to support that unit. I did not designate that Unit B is supporting a Hold. Unit B is definitely not ordered to support Unit A's move/attack. Unit B is merely ordered to support unit A. I thought that if unit A is attacked, unit B supports it as if unit A was holding based on the fact that a unit attacked must defend instead of move. Now if it possible, lol, can anyone clarify?
The error comes from this line: "as if unit A was holding based on the fact that a unit attacked must defend instead of move." There is no "as if." Your units receive orders based on what you order... not based on what ends up happening.

Unit A was ordered to move. The ONLY support Unit A can receive is to move. Ordering another unit to support A IN CASE he doesn't end up moving does not have any effect.

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Re: Question about support

#7 Post by dyager_nh » Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:26 pm

Another interwsting dynamic that always gets me to stop and think is the following:

Austria has armies in Vienna and Trieste. Turkey in Budapest and Serbia.

Vienna moves to Budapest with Trieste support
Budapest moves to Trieste with Serbia support
What happens?

Scenerio 2:
Vienna moves to Budapest with Trieste support
Serbia moves to Trieste with Budapest support
What happens?

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David E. Cohen
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Re: Question about support

#8 Post by David E. Cohen » Thu Mar 21, 2019 11:08 pm

dargorygel wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:55 pm
fourofswords wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 6:15 pm
thanks for the 2 answers so far. they seem contradictory. let me clarify the situation: My Unit A is moving. My unit B is ordered to support that unit. I did not designate that Unit B is supporting a Hold. Unit B is definitely not ordered to support Unit A's move/attack. Unit B is merely ordered to support unit A. I thought that if unit A is attacked, unit B supports it as if unit A was holding based on the fact that a unit attacked must defend instead of move. Now if it possible, lol, can anyone clarify?
The error comes from this line: "as if unit A was holding based on the fact that a unit attacked must defend instead of move." There is no "as if." Your units receive orders based on what you order... not based on what ends up happening.

Unit A was ordered to move. The ONLY support Unit A can receive is to move. Ordering another unit to support A IN CASE he doesn't end up moving does not have any effect.
Not only that, but the support order must "match" the movement order. Support cannot be given for movement in general.

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Re: Question about support

#9 Post by Claesar » Fri Mar 22, 2019 8:28 am

dyager_nh wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:26 pm
Another interwsting dynamic that always gets me to stop and think is the following:

Austria has armies in Vienna and Trieste. Turkey in Budapest and Serbia.

Vienna moves to Budapest with Trieste support
Budapest moves to Trieste with Serbia support
What happens?
Turkey takes Trieste and dislodges the army there (forcing a retreat). Austria takes empty Budapest with power 1.
Scenerio 2:
Vienna moves to Budapest with Trieste support
Serbia moves to Trieste with Budapest support
What happens?
Trieste support is cut. Budapest support is cut. All armies remain in place.

Lord of Broken Plains
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Re: Question about support

#10 Post by Lord of Broken Plains » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:08 am

Is it valid to order, for example:

A Spa S A Mar
A Mar S A Spa


If so, does each effectively support the other in a hold action?

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Re: Question about support

#11 Post by Mercy » Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:29 am

Lord of Broken Plains wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:08 am
Is it valid to order, for example:

A Spa S A Mar
A Mar S A Spa
Yes.
Lord of Broken Plains wrote:
Sun Sep 29, 2019 7:08 am
If so, does each effectively support the other in a hold action?
Yes.


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