M80 Game Thread

[brainbomb]

there are really only a few circumstances upon which dousing would get a message about anything. what would dousing even have to be able to claim in such a situation?

My point exactly.

My comment indicated that, if such a swap had happened, it likely would have had no discernible effect that we could respond to (at that point in the game state), since nobody was claiming they had performed any other actions (that might have been driven onto Dousing), and Dousing was not claiming anything had happened to him (ie. as a result of someone being driven onto him).

You came into this thinking that in order for dousing to be proven to have been driven, someone would be claiming something. someone wouldve said hey I shot dousing and it didnt work, or hey I cop scanned dousing and it didnt work. Which we already knew by this point fox was cop scanned. and We knew here that eden had used ability on pyxxy.

So the only other roles are like a vig shot or a doc save and dousing was never going to claim to be doc saved because he wouldnt get a message unless hit. and he didnt die so we know he wasnt vigged.

the point was you dismissed the possibility or likelihood of scum using a drive on dousing because there was not any evidence. there never wouldve been any evidence.

this was about dousing looking bad at EOD 1 and likeliest use of power during N1.

[brainbomb]

youre arguing about evidence.
im arguing about likelihoods.

[sweetandcool]

Let me just boil this down to one paragraph:

MY POINT WAS THAT SPECULATING ABOUT DOUSING BEING DRIVEN WAS UNLIKELY TO REVEAL ANY NEW INFORMATION TO TOWN IN THAT PHASE. I.E. THAT IT WAS SPECULATION THAT COULD PROBABLY NOT BE VERIFIED.

I did not misunderstand the Driver role. I understand it perfectly well.

I did not suggest that Dousing would get a message as a direct result of the Driver action (he could have got a PM if something like the Friendly Neighbour was redirected to him by the Driver, but this was an edge case).

I understood this all the first time. Brain just has a bee in their bonnet that they can't get out.

[Haze with a Z]

Or, the Town Roleblocker could have been redirected to Dousing if he was driven as Brainbomb speculated.

Unlikely, though.

My point was about what town would learn from Brainbomb's theory: Fuck all.

it says on the document that rb comes before bus driving. So I don't think they woulda been redirected like that.

[brainbomb]

I really dont. It comes off as that you dont want to discuss something speculative about how scum would use powers.

the second part about thinking its funny for me to call a GM and then get somewhat verbally called out in a less than polite way, that you think thats amusing, when the whole reason the GM call happened was your own misrepresentation of the role itself.

[brainbomb]

In any case I have closure on the subject now, and it boils down to that you just dont speculate on things without evidence.

[Jamiet99uk]

I really dont. It comes off as that you dont want to discuss something speculative about how scum would use powers.

the second part about thinking its funny for me to call a GM and then get somewhat verbally called out in a less than polite way, that you think thats amusing, when the whole reason the GM call happened was your own misrepresentation of the role itself.

I did not misrepresent anything. You continue to be mistaken on this point. I can only correct you again.

[brainbomb]

actually, what town would learn about my theory could very well explain ghugs behavior at day 2 start. Especially if you think ghug is mafia, it sets up and lines up logically.

[Jamiet99uk]

In any case I have closure on the subject now, and it boils down to that you just dont speculate on things without evidence.

That was my initial point: It was speculation and could probably not be verified.

That was all.

Then you decided to become a human whirlwind in response to that comment.

[Jamiet99uk]

actually, what town would learn about my theory could very well explain ghugs behavior at day 2 start. Especially if you think ghug is mafia, it sets up and lines up logically.

You think Ghug is the driver?

[damo666]

Going offline very soon. Doubtful I'll be back before EON.

Any questions quick please.

[Jamiet99uk]

Going offline very soon. Doubtful I'll be back before EON.

Any questions quick please.

Do you think that Ghug is the mafia with a Driver action?

[damo666]

I didn't need the Jamie confirmation after all. Roleblock before drive meant Xcution had to be Spy, I thought there was a slim chance he was Cap'n Puggy. Ah well.

[brainbomb]

actually, what town would learn about my theory could very well explain ghugs behavior at day 2 start. Especially if you think ghug is mafia, it sets up and lines up logically.

You think Ghug is the driver?

this is the type of reply I would expect from you as scum. Rather than trying to interpret this, or go reread this, and understand where the game was D1 at EOD with this wagon:

bozotheclown (5): Kakarroto, President Eden, pyxxy, Jamiet99uk, Dousing
Dousing (5): rdrivera2005, ghug, bozotheclown, damo666, worcej

Youre getting caught up in verifying what exact role ghug is. and if the point of this debate is that ghug is now the driver. The point is that, ghug enters Day 2 this way:

##VOTE Dousing but Haze should probably be a wagon too.

and the theory comes back to this earlier post of mine:

ghug doesnt even flinch at dousing staunchest defender dying.


which presents a scenario ghug-exclusive

like if ghug is scum here, and dousing is scum here, then ghug can look great if dousing has been driver-ed, so as to make it seem like hes town in a cop scan. So ghug would be disinclined to acknowledge pyxxy dying maybe changes anything.

if dousing is scum and is not the subject of a driver effort, and ghug also is scum, once again ghug would gain more by not even acknowledging pyxxys stances there, and can just bus freely.

if dousing is town, and ghug is town, then ghug is just ignoring the nk because nk's are wifom, and ghug knows what he knows and doesnt care what it looks like.

if dousing is scum and ghug is town, ghug doesnt give a shit who died last night and isnt gonna adjust a scumread based on wifom.

[Jamiet99uk]

I see Brainbomb, thank you for reminding me.

Ghug is certainly not in the clear.

I am fascinated by whatever Haze and Ghug's secret information is; but that's a story for tomorrow morning.

[brainbomb]

So humor all of us then which of those 4 scenarios make the most sense

[brainbomb]

The only scenarios not mentioned here is

scum ghug goes after town dousing knowing that town dousing has been driver targeted and swapped with a mafia, so when/if a cop claims ghug looks really good.

or scum ghug goes after town dousing knowing dousing is just lhf, and the driver just wasnt used.

[Jamiet99uk]

So humor all of us then which of those 4 scenarios make the most sense

Well it's interesting that things have moved on since you originally speculated about Ghug and Dousing. There are only two scum left.

BB's Scenario 1: Ghug and Dousing are scum and Dousing was driven to generate a false cop scan outcome.

We know #1 cannot be true because we've observed a correct cop scan.

BB's Scenario 2: Dousing and Ghug are both scum. Dousing was not driven. Ghug's suspicion of Dousing was a bus.

#2 is mechanically possible and is consistent with Ghug as scum; he certainly busses sometimes.

BB's Scenario 3: Dousing is town, and ghug is town, and ghug did not connect Pyxxy's death to his (incorrect) scumread of Dousing because nk's are wifom.

#3 is possible and is generally consistent with town Ghug. I don't see town!Ghug spending ages speculating about the reason for the N1 kill.

BB's Scenario 4: Dousing is scum, Ghug is town. Ghug did not connect Pyxxy's death to his (correct) scumread of Dousing because nk's are wifom.

This is otherwise the same as scenario #4 except Ghug's D2 scumread on Dousing is right.

So scenario #1 is discounted, but the others are possible. Ok?

[brainbomb]

Scenario 1 isnt discounted. Ghug can still position himself in the event that a cop scan happened. whether the cop scan actually happened or not does not erase the possibility mafia thought it could happen. the actual itself would have made ghug look pretty good, accurate ect in the event a drive actually worked.

just because the cop scan didnt happen this way does not eliminate in any way that the mafia thought it might

[Jamiet99uk]

The only scenarios not mentioned here is

Scum ghug goes after town dousing knowing that town dousing has been driver targeted and swapped with a mafia, so when/if a cop claims ghug looks really good.

or scum ghug goes after town dousing knowing dousing is just lhf, and the driver just wasnt used.

Of these two scenarios I think the second is moderately more plausible than the first. The first of these two scenarios only makes Ghug look good temporarily. Then, when town!dousing is flipped, Ghug at best looks like someone who over-confidently got it wrong, and at worst, looks suspicious himself.