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Finished: 08 AM Fri 02 Nov 12 UTC
Mutually Assured Destruction
1 day /phase
Pot: 103 D - Spring, 2018, Finished
World Diplomacy IX, Anonymous players, Survivors-Win Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
18 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2011: [Ghana]:Hi .. sorry .. a bit rushed at the moment. Quick reaction is .. I agree with China, let's get it down to 4 and then review.
19 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [Western-Canada]:Ok, down to 4 after the builds. You really want to give me a chance to contest your northern border, china?
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [Frozen-Antarctica]:I think it's hardly fair for W. Canada and USA to benefit from a 4 way draw when they have t really done a lot, particularly w. Canada. Eastern Canada went into cd in 1902 and all W Canada has done since is pick of a couple of SCs here and there while hoping nobody will bother to attack the Americas. With fewer than Half China or Ghanas SCs I don't see how a 4 way draw is fair or equitable.
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [Western-Canada]:No one said it was fair. It's just diplomacy.
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [Ghana]:What do you think China?
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [Frozen-Antarctica]:50/50 split is the only fair outcome.
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [Western-Canada]:You guys wanna keep fighting, I'm game. My only point is that it's fruitless.
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [Frozen-Antarctica]:Only for you. And now you're smallest on the board and spread thin across 3 continents you're looking pretty vulnerable.
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [Western-Canada]:I'm completely vulnerable if USA attacks me, and that's always been the case, as he is vulnerable if he attacks me. Combined (as we have been treating our forces), we're just as strong as either of you.

Let's just leave it at this: if I don't make it out of this game alive and well, I'd be shocked.
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [Western-Canada]:I dunno why I'm explaining myself to the guy who decided to throw in the towel way too early though.
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [Frozen-Antarctica]:You either know when enoughs enough or, like you, you don't.
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [China]:Take it easy people, its only a game
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [USA]:Sacrilige!
20 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2011: [Western-Canada]:Well regardless, it sounds like we're going to continue to play, so let's just do it. God speed to all.
21 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2012: [USA]:I have my draw vote in. And I reaffirm my loyalty to my North American brother.
23 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2012: [USA]:One Chinese SC down. You two want to keep trying when we just made ground against you?
23 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2012: [China]:Yeah, sorry about that. I wont lose anymore turns, hopefully.
23 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2013: [USA]:Why not just draw? A four way split is a fair and equitable split. World games have a negligible affect on GR and, even if they didn't, 17 nations worth of GR share split four way is bound to be a profit. And the stats don't reflect the size of the draw. It's just another tick in the draw column.
23 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2013: [Western-Canada]:This game is officially at a stalemate. And if it isn't, it's going to take a god awful long time for anyone to break through, especially with China losing his guy in the Americas. Let's end it.
25 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2014: [Western-Canada]:China, after having missed yet another turn, this game now just sucks. Please draw so we can end this and use the credits to play in other games. I'm begging you, don't drag this out. Same goes for you Ghana, but I don't think I have to beg you to draw.
25 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2014: [China]:I was on a business trip for the last five days. Therefore I didn't always had the opportunity to log on. But I am back now and will have no other deleyes. I can understand your desire to end this game but from my and Ghanas perspective we are yet to win. Surely the 5 pt bet that was ceded to play is not what witholds you from joining other games, so please - endure a little bit longer or take my previous offer of a three way draw :-)
25 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2014: [USA]:I will three way with you. Kill Ghana and we can draw. And my bet is quite a bit more than 5 points.
25 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2014: [China]:you chose to join the game in a very late period, USA. You knew well what you are betting for. Attacking Ghana is out of the question, and I am definatly ready to continue the game.
25 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2014: [USA]:I joined the game to provide a fair ending and not leave Western Canada to suffer at your hands so you two could two way draw.
25 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2014: [China]:Fair ending? What is "fair ending" in diplomacy? I never promised a four way draw to anyone. From my point of view it's either 3 way draw with either you or w.canada or a 2 way draw with Ghana.
25 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2014: [Western-Canada]:This game is at an end right now, and a pretty fair one at that. As long as you don't turn on Ghana, and the USA and I don't turn on each other, you will not gain any more progress. Alaska was a fluke and you know every single Chinamen manning that fleet is going to die within the year. Clearly you are too new at this game to understand that your excess forces don't give you an advantage at this point, and are convinced you can take us out, so keep at it. We can't force you to draw.
29 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2016: [USA]:WC and I are in position that, with the correct support holds repeated over and over, you cannot break thru. You may as well draw now. We will *not* attack each other cause we know it would be the end of the game for both of us.
29 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2016: [China]:I respect your position but the last turnes proved that your defences are not impossible to break.
29 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2016: [Western-Canada]:This is fine, Ghana has pushed the south to the stalemate line, and China you're going to continue to slowly push me back to the stalemate line as well. If you think you're landing in America or in Godthab you're delusional.
29 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2016: [China]:I am aware of your opinion, WC
29 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2016: [USA]:I have moved support for South America's west coast up since then. I was actually concerned that Chili might be lost to a convoy last turn, but you all delayed. Now that coast is impenetrable. Seriously. It can't be done. I can sit in South America tell hell freezes over and you can't get in.
29 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2016: [Western-Canada]:I like reminding you :). Good luck taking the seas up here, the water may be too frigid for Asian blood.
29 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2016: [USA]:Look at htese position and you will see what I mean.

Chili is safe (3 on 3)
Peru is safe (1 on 1)
NEPac is safe (3 on 3)
NPO is safe (3 on 4 (we have over kill))
Alaska is safe (1 on 1)
The whole north is secure (1 on 1s and 2 on 2s)
WAO is safe (3 on 3)
NWA is safe (1 on 2 (more overkill))
29 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2016: [China]:Maybe you are right. Let's see what happens this year.
29 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2016: (zultar): This looks like a stalemate to me. China/Ghana, if you think you have a way to end the stalemate, please email me at webdipmod@gmail.com and explain to me your plan. Otherwise, I will force draw the game. My preference would be that you would draw yourselves.
29 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2016: [China]:For the sake of it, I'll draw.
30 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2017: [Western-Canada]:Change of heart, China?
30 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2017: [China]:Ghana doesn't want to draw, and I can honestly understand him as you keep losing territories.
30 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2017: [USA]:You mean Europe? Planned withdrawal there to the Atlantic stalemate line. He has the units to spare losing 2 SCs.
30 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2017: [Western-Canada]:If you guys want to let me establish the draw line, that's perfectly respectable.
30 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2017: (zultar): USA has emailed me about his plan to create a stalemate line up north as there isn't much you can do in the south (and China has sent me an email explaining what he plans to do up north).
So, I suggest the following:

USA- Just tell them what you are going to do. I think you are right that you can create stalemate lines up north.
China- Once USA has posted what he plans to do, then you can propose how he's wrong. If you can tell me exactly which moves will break USA's eventual stalemate, then you may keep going.

Based on what USA has emailed me and what another mod has advised, it seems to me that a stalemate is inevitable, but I rather that you folks can come to see that for yourselves. I loathe to intervene unless it is necessary.
30 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2017: [USA]:If I send our orders out, they get an unfair advantage. No thanks. We will play on until the line is hit.
30 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2017: (zultar): I have conferred with the other mods, and it seems to us that if you can get to a forced stalemate, then please do it, and once that happens and China/ghana refuses to draw, then we can talk again. Otherwise, we will not interfere with this game anymore.

Convincing someone to draw in the face of an inevitable stalemate is the job of the player(s), not of the mods. We will force draw ONLY if it is a forced stalemate and one or two players refuses to acknowledge it.

I think we have made it clear about what you need to do.
30 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2017: [China]:I just want to add that I am very glad that the discussions are passed in a respectfull manner. Both WC and USA seem to be decent people and experienced players. I assure you that neither me nor Ghana aren't trying to ruin the game in any way but simply to play it out. Obviously the moment I will see the final stalemate I will immidietly pull for a draw and hope Ghana will do the same.
30 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2017: [USA]:Agreed. Let's play it out until the north looks like the south then you will know it is a draw.
30 Oct 12 UTC Spring, 2017: [Ghana]:Fine by me too.
31 Oct 12 UTC Autumn, 2017: [Western-Canada]:How about now, are we walled in enough yet for the draw?
31 Oct 12 UTC [Western-Canada]:Hudson SH Beaufort
Baffin SH Labrador
Thule SH Godthab

Satisfied? I don't need Great Britain.
31 Oct 12 UTC [USA]:Stale mate is official.

Lab has support (2 on 2)
Godthab has support (2 on 2).
Thule needs no support.
Beau has support (2 on 2).
Alaska has support (2 on 2).
NPO has double support (3 on 3).
NEP has double support (3 on 3).
Peru needs no support.
Chili has triple support (4 defense, best attack is 3).
SCr needs no support
BAi needs no support.
WAO has quadruple support (4 defense, best attack is 3).
NWA needs no support.
GBr is a sacrifiial lamb we don't care about.

That completes the loop. Stalemate locked in.
31 Oct 12 UTC [USA]:Good game all. I'm actually glad we played this out to the true stalemate. That way no one can say "Well, we were just being nice." Everyone who survived played well all the way until the end (despite a slip up letting China into Alaska :-) )

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 26 D
31 supply-centers, 31 units
Utom (944 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 26 D
29 supply-centers, 29 units
Draugnar (0 D X)
Drawn. Bet: 18 D, won: 26 D
16 supply-centers, 16 units
y2kjbk (5402 D (G))
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 26 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
Krythe (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Silverbird (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
jgurstein (0 D X)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Submariner (111 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
TheJon (0 D X)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Lucid (155 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Greylond (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
scolaco (0 D X)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
owen roe (621 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
berdust (340 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
tulsakaleb (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
mlbone (112 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Jmb71 (279 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Civil Disorders
Deia (196 D)USA (Autumn, 2010) with 15 centres.
Krythe (100 D)Argentina (Autumn, 2003) with 0 centres.
jgurstein (0 D X)Europe (Spring, 2006) with 1 centres.
tulsakaleb (100 D)Russia (Autumn, 2008) with 1 centres.
berdust (340 D)Quebec (Autumn, 2001) with 0 centres.
Greylond (100 D)Libya (Spring, 2001) with 4 centres.
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