Finished: 06 PM Fri 29 Aug 08 UTC
Fortune Fifty - 2
1 day, 1 hours /phase
Pot: 438 D - Autumn, 1909, Finished
Classic, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by destp (2774 D)
14 Aug 08 UTC Spring, 1901: Hey all. Lookin' forward to a good game.
14 Aug 08 UTC Spring, 1901: Oh, and I would encourage you all to join the upcoming league. Sign-ups end August 31st. Just see the thread in the forum and e-mail TheGhostmaker with your request. If you think you have what it takes to be a great Diplomacy player, the leagues will let you put that to the test and if you're able, to climb in rank and stature. Hope to see you there.
16 Aug 08 UTC Autumn, 1901: What the inactivity?!
16 Aug 08 UTC Autumn, 1901: Strange...
18 Aug 08 UTC Autumn, 1902: Are people having trouble entering orders? I know Austria was logged on during this past phase...
19 Aug 08 UTC Autumn, 1902: All the better for the people that are entering orders, eh? Of course i'm stuck between two people that actually are...
19 Aug 08 UTC Autumn, 1902: Well this won't do... I hope someone takes over the CD's...
19 Aug 08 UTC Autumn, 1902: But, they're logging in and sending messages, so they won't go CD... I don't get it.
19 Aug 08 UTC Autumn, 1902: Hmmm... They're not sending messages to me...
19 Aug 08 UTC Autumn, 1902: GameMaster: PirateJack has taken over Russia.
19 Aug 08 UTC Autumn, 1902: Hey everyone
19 Aug 08 UTC Autumn, 1902: Hey thanks a lot for taking over Russia.
20 Aug 08 UTC Autumn, 1902: No problem, though it sucks that Austria and Turkey are looking to go CD.
21 Aug 08 UTC Spring, 1903: I'm sorry to add to the list, but i somehow missed the fact that i can't play while i'm on vacation till now. This will be my last set of orders.
21 Aug 08 UTC Spring, 1903: ...
25 Aug 08 UTC Spring, 1904: GameMaster: as has taken over England.
12 Sep 08 UTC Autumn, 1908: Amateur mistake on my part, but regardless I think we have a draw on our hands.
12 Sep 08 UTC Autumn, 1908: Agreed... Italy?
12 Sep 08 UTC Autumn, 1908: I would rather wait at least until we're down to 3 players.
12 Sep 08 UTC Autumn, 1908: It's against my policy of drawing in a Winner Takes All match, but if thet rest of you want it I'll agree. Let's see how long it takes to completely destroy me then =P.
12 Sep 08 UTC Autumn, 1908: Well, it's against my policy as well, seeing as it was a lot of my whining that won us the option... But in my mind the WTA priorities are as follows.

1. Win
2. Don't let anyone else win.

And at this point, if we were to eliminate you, we would risk forfeiting the second priority. In one scenario you get 1/4 of the pot. In another, you get nothing... The only one who shouldn't really want the draw is Italy because he has everything to lose, which is why we've forced him into a stalemate.
12 Sep 08 UTC Autumn, 1908: As I said, I'm only interested in a three way draw (or less), not a 4 or 5 way.
12 Sep 08 UTC Autumn, 1908: Italy... unfortunately I cannot take Russia out for you. If I take over St. Pete's, that breaks the hold on Moscow which lets you into Moscow. Once you're in Moscow, I will no longer be able to hold on to Warsaw.
12 Sep 08 UTC Autumn, 1908: Well, we have a problem then... Would you be willing to take my word that I will not interfere with your dismantling of Russia?
13 Sep 08 UTC Autumn, 1908: Why would you take a 3-way draw over a solo win? There's no reason for you to not take Moscow...
13 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: What about the fact that if I were not willing to do that then we're stuck like this. Besides, I'm sure Germany could figure out a way to keep me out of Moscow while he takes St. Petersburg.
13 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: He can't do it unless you with draw from Ukraine and Galicia. Will you do that? You'll still be safe from a counter attack, and it would give Germany the leg room to finish off Russia.
13 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: He could also support Prussia from Livonia, but yes, I would be willing to withdraw to allow Germany to finish Russia and make it a 3 way draw.
13 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: He would need Prussia to defend Warsaw as long as your armies are near. Sounds good then.
14 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: Russia! What the hell!
14 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: It was purely in my self-interests. You're all debating on how you're going to kill me and accept a draw... That's not good for me, so I struck a deal with Italy so that he wins and I don't get a loss against my name.

If anyone is to blame it's you guys for trying to screw me over. I don't take kindly to that, and this is the result.
14 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: That's one of the funniest pieces of flawed logic I've seen while playing Diplomacy! LOL

destp, congrats on pulling off the biggest coup I've ever seen. I don't know how you managed to do it, but congrats!!!
14 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909:
I would say it was less logical than it was personal...

Good game all. Look forward to seeing you all in future games. Congratulations destp.
14 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: Thanks, though I think PirateJack's decision makes sense; he had a choice between being eliminated so the rest of us could share in a 3 way draw, or helping me and surviving the game... I would have done the same in his position.

Still, good game everyone, it's been a fun one.
14 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: The survival is meaningless in WTA though... I think it was merely that he felt betrayed by our public deliberation. The two outcomes were equal for all intents and purposes. Except I would argue that his actions sealed the door for a 4-way draw. If he had convinced Italy that he would help him and then did not support him, Germany and I might have been suspicious enough to not attempt to eliminate Russia as clearly Italy could not have been trusted.
14 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: Maybe, though I doubt that would have worked once I actually withdrew from the border (which would have been the next step if he didn't help me). As for their being no difference between an elimination and survival, that's true in terms of points, but not in terms of one's profile record (not to mention the spirit of the game).
15 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: Well, I have a proposal to make then... for my personal satisfaction. desp - will you consider eliminating Russia anyway?!? :)
15 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: It was a mixture of revenge and logic, being that I was annoyed by this discussion of my fate without taking into account that I am actually human, and that I would not want another elimination recorded in my profile.

As for Germany's proposal, it serves no point other than petty maliciousness. It was your blunder that caused this scenario in the first place, with your refusal to take advantage of Italy while his defences were weak. I may have given Italy a centre, but it was you who gave him the win.
15 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: But anyways, it's been a good game and I've enjoyed it. Congratulations to destp and I look forward to playing with you all in the future.
15 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: I see no reason to go back on my deal with Russia at this point.
15 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: meh.... couldn't hurt to ask :)
15 Sep 08 UTC Spring, 1909: I would say the spirit of the game had nothing to do with his decision... let alone if his decision was in the spirit of the game.

I have nothing else to say really because it was foolish of us to discuss our plans in global and I guess we paid the price. It's impossible to expect people to play completely detached and logically. At the same time, I'm a little disappointed that Russia won't admit to having given Italy the win... why not take responsibility for what you did?
15 Sep 08 UTC Oh yes, I did give Italy the last SC he needed, and thus the win, but the game had all but been decided when Germany moved to attack me instead of Italy. It left me too weak to put up any sort of resistance when Italy moved forward and consolidated his defence. In effect, I was made impotent the moment he played against me.

I am taking responsibility for giving Italy his last SC, don't get me wrong, but I cannot be wholly to blame because I had both hands effectively tied behind my back for the last 3 years of game play.
15 Sep 08 UTC I do hope I can take at least some of the responsibility for my win...
15 Sep 08 UTC Russia, yes I pushed back on you because you continued to attack me EVERY turn and I couldn't hope to fight Italy and you at the same time. I had to push you back into Russia before setting up my southern defenses.

That being said, I publically stated that I had no intention of attacking you any further as that would give Italy the win. If you'd been a little more patient, Italy would have been forced to accept a 4-way draw because he wouldn't have been able to break through our stalemate line.

You made a rash, emotionally-driven decision that cost you 110 points. Basically, your ego couldn't take the fact that you only had 2 SCs... so rather than thinking logically that winning 110 points with 2 SCs is the same as winning 110 points with 10 SCs, you committed suicide. I now see why you only have 86 points :)
15 Sep 08 UTC Oh, and Italy - you should take all the credit for your win. You played a perfect game acquiring your first 16 SCs, then made the move of the century by convincing Russia to jump off the bridge! LOL
15 Sep 08 UTC From the conversation in global chat and my own discussion with Italy I knew that he would not accept a four way draw, he was adamant about that fact. I had the choice of either elimination or surviving, and I chose the one that would be better for me.

The reason I was attacking you was because we were at war. It was mine and France's goal to kill you off, which is how the game is played, but Italy was steadily taking over the Med and had already taken over Austria. He was gaining too much power, too quickly, so we tried to convince you to join us in fighting him back. You didn't go for it and we ended up in this situation.

Also, points in a draw are divided the same way as in a PPSC game, so I would not have received 110 points even if I had survived long enough for it to come to that. I made my choice and I stand by it. There is nothing more to it than that.
15 Sep 08 UTC No, draws are divided equally amongst the remaining players. I'm disappointed with Russia for giving Italy the win, but I can definitely see why he did it. I wouldn't call it logical, but I would say it's within reason.

I was disappointed with Germany's lack of co-operation despite Italy's rampant expansion, but his actions were also within reason.

I blame myself for amateurishly losing Spain to Italy in poor tactical play. I had a stalemate going, and I still mucked it.

But mostly, I blame Italy for playing a strong, solid game. =D

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Italy
destp (2774 D)
Won. Bet: 50 D, won: 438 D
18 supply-centers, 16 units
France
Chrispminis (916 D)
Survived. Bet: 50 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
Germany
azzaron (1765 D)
Survived. Bet: 50 D
6 supply-centers, 7 units
Russia
PirateJack (400 D)
Survived. Bet: 75 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
Turkey
Happyfunball (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Austria
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
England
as (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 13 D
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