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Finished: 09 AM Mon 27 Dec 10 UTC
Private Rob Ford Sucks
1 day /phase
Pot: 210 D - Autumn, 1921, Finished
Classic, Survivors-Win Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
06 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1915: Its tough for Austria or Turkey to win by taking Scandinavian or even English SCs with fleets so far away. Usually St Petes is the bottleneck and it comes down to pushing through Germany/France and the Med. In this case we just managed to keep opening up fronts before you could lock down these areas.

I played a game once (against you Russ) where I was Turkey and got to 17 SCs but couldnt get the win. We ended up drawing before you and Mike could open up the Berlin/Prussia front, but had we kept playing it may have turned out something like this.Its very tough to win against 2 allied people - even at 16 or 17 SCs
07 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1915: You used Livonia to support-hold Moscow that turn, so supporting Moscow into St. Petes wouldn't have hurt at all. You have Moscow sitting idle now so it's not like you are using it in Germany. But since you hoped to get England to help you with Italy it made sense not to piss him off.
07 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1915: Dont make me build a wall around Yorkshire, Brent.
07 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1915: AH! OK, I'll shut my mouth.
08 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1915: I knew this map looked familiar. Our second game ever finished: http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=21960#

Six of the seven players the same, and two of the final three the same as well. For some reason I can't review the past moves, so I have no idea how I got an Austrian fleet in the Gulf of Bothnia...
08 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1915: Fascinating find. That is remarkably similar. I think I remember that, and that oddly-placed fleet in particular. Seem to recall it caused me some troubles. You can watch the fleet move around there here, http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=21960&viewArchive=Maps
08 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1915: That map cache is a great way to watch it unfold. I usually flip through manually, but that's really slow. Cool.
But just today I've had trouble loading my orders on my laptop. The whole page loads, but where the orders are it just says Loading. I've had to set my orders on my phone while looking at my computer. It also won't let me flip back to past years on the map. Anybody else having this trouble?
08 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1915: I've been ok lately, but it has happend to me in the past
08 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1915: Yeah, me on occasion, but usually reloading it and/or restarting my browser makes it happy.
08 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1916: A lot of similarities to chess here. It's interesting. And it really makes you appreciate the attention to the design of the borders and the fronts. The game reaches a very careful balance between too many unbreakable stalemate lines and just a complete offensive mess.

Who would be down for a live game over Christmas. I figure we could trace a map out and raid Risk for pieces. I played live once and you get to see everybody go of to talk with everybody else. Less time to think, and more deception necessary. Then everybody writes down their orders and they're all revealed. All we'd need are a couple of hours set aside one night, and beer.
08 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1916: If I make it that far, that might be neat. I'm just starting exams now, so it's hard to imagine that far ahead. Also, just a heads-up that because of that I'm likely to be slower for the next little while (or at least I should be - if you find I'm not, please get mad at me and tell me to get back to studying, would you?)
08 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1916: Hmmm. I do like beer...
09 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: worlds collide!
09 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: I'm interested in a live game for sure. It will be interesting to see the reactions when people are screwed over (especially when beer is involved).
09 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: I have cut off all beer supplies to Yorkshire.
09 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: I think the peasants of Yorkshire should form a militia and raise an internal Rebellion Français against these oppressive beer policies, and bring England to its knees. Vive la France!
09 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: Eric, the people of Yorkshire have been oppressed for over 10 years living under your regime. They are far past the point of drinking beer; moonshine is the drink of choice.
09 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: What?! Just for that, no more cigarettes!!
09 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: Russ, we could blow up a new map, without any units placed on it, and then print it off. I'm not sure how it would turn out, but might be worth a shot before we go the tracing route.
09 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: don't worry guys, I can play Diplomacy in my head. Everyone can just tell me their moves, and I'll keep track on the mental board in my mind. No need for a real board.
10 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: Good game in the Gunboat game, that was really fun. Definitely wasn't expecting to get off to such a good start.
10 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: Yeah Kev, that was really well done. Perhaps being unencumbered by the mental hesitation of playing Italy allowed you to just steamroll through where the rest of us would have assumed that wouldn't have worked.

It's interesting that both gunboat games have been easy solos. I've played a few before, and they often end up in a stalemate as the losing players, since they can't talk to the leader, just all ally firmly against him (as we tried to do as early as Spring 1907).

On that note: Simon, man, what was that? We had a fairly easy stalemate line to set up there, and you intentionally ruined it. Sure I took Belgium from you in 1908, but that was to get a build in Berlin to try and defend the obviously weak side of our line. I was worried it would catch you off guard, but I assumed you'd be able to figure out what I was doing when I didn't build in Kiel, and then supported St Petes to hold. Autumn 1909: If I don't support St Petes, we lose right there. We still had a shot at forcing the draw, and then you just wrecked me.
10 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: Ya, I was thinking the same thing when I saw England move into Germany. Unless you care about the extra points, it wasn't going to do anything but hand Italy the game. Oh well, I was just happy to survive. You guys did a good job of teaming up on me early. I was surprised how well it was coordinated without being able to talk it out.
10 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: Ok Simon, I want to move Budapest to Serbia, Vienna to Trieste, and Trieste to Albania.
10 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: Simon did manage to get a ton of extra points out of that. And I think I had a shot and breaking through in Germany, I sorted through a bunch of scenarios and I had one where you had to guess 50/50 if I was going to push Prussia or Silesia. Once I captured either one of them, I would've had a clear path to Berlin or Munich (assuming Simon didn't fortify you from behind, which was a true possibility if you stayed allied.)
10 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: True he got more points, but I guess I think that's kind of a crappy way to play. He lost, whereas the other way he doesn't. It's also more challenging to set up a stalemate than just raid for points.

Kev, you certainly could have broken through in Germany. What needed to happen was for England to move to Norway to defend St Petes on his own, thus freeing my fleet to move back down. If you had taken one of my non-centres I could have rebuilt in Kiel. If Burgundy and Kiel supported Munich, and Baltic Sea supported Berlin, then you couldn't have broken through. Marseilles would have been in danger, but that was only after all of England's fleets left the Mediterranean Sea. Or he could have built an army after 1909 to convoy to Gascony to support it. Tough in a gunboat, but not impossible.
10 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: wait everyone got really mad at me last time I was England allied to Germany and didn't backstab.
10 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: Shut up Simon.
10 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: simon, those 2 scenarios were completely different. we all know you know that.
10 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1916: I didnt even read the post, I just like telling Simon to shut up.
11 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1917: fine. real reason is I find the end-game to stalemate super tedious. as you all know I am not the best Diplomacy player
11 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1917: how do you guys feel about gun boat games? i'm not a big fan. not to diminish kevin's win, but i find it to be a lot of luck and they go against the central theme of diplomacy. perhaps i need to play a few more to get the hang of them but i haven't enjoyed the 2 we have completed.
11 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1917: I like them because they move faster
11 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1917: I like them for a different challenge. Something I read likened them to Checkers as Diplomacy is to chess. A different game, but using the same board. Since there's no negotiation I think you have to rely more on 'survival instincts' and be more fluid with your moves, trying to keep the balance from tipping too far to one person. As Turkey that may mean not attacking Austria if Russia is growing too fast early on. Or at least deciding if you'll get a big enough piece of Austria to possibly take on a strong Russia next.

Either way, I've started a new one for those who want to go again. This one is winner-take-all, so no point raiding. http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=43983
Password: yeewins (if that doesn't work, try yeewon. I should have written it down, apparently...)
11 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1917: The problem is the rules and unit movement are the same in both regular and gun boat games. It's quite difficult to win this game on your own, especially when you are more concerned with just surviving rather than working towards a goal with an ally. I do like the challenge though, and the unknown adds a twist, but I think it all comes down to good fortune, and bad moves from those around you (especially opening moves). Maybe I'm just bitter because I'm done so poorly in our last three games.
12 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1918: One trick is to check the big map, which reveals all attempted supports as well. In Autumn 1901 of the last one, Ruhr supported EC to Belgium, hoping to get England on my side. He didn't move EC to Belgium, so the support doesn't show up in the basic map, but it showed England that I was willing to let him on the continent and hoping to work with him. From there it was just about muddling through as best we could.

Only three people have joined, though. Maybe post if you don't plan to join, and we can get Sakovitz or others.
12 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1918: I joined.
13 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1918: I hadn't even seen that there was a new game posted there - I joined
13 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1918: Don't think I have another one of those in me. At least not now I'm afraid.
13 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1918: With Pope too afraid of horrible vengence being cast upon his silent, anonymous, gunboat navy, do you guys want to invite Matt Saks to play? I'd also be game for getting another talkie going once France wraps that one up. Well played, Mike?
14 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1919: Well, it would be pretty horrible vengeance at this point, I bet.
15 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1919: Starting tomorrow morning I will be away skiing until Monday - Can we take a break on this one until then? I will pause after this move
15 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1919: Sure.
15 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1920: It's always kind of embarrassing to get a build when no one is destroying...
16 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1920: To be continued on Monday!
21 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1920: Back! Let the games continue
23 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1920: I feel sorry for the rest of you guys who are going to have to endure my months of bitching if this one ends in a two-player draw. You guys know it's not a team game, right?
25 Dec 10 UTC Merry Christmas everybody! (Except for Italy and England. For you I wish nothing by bad tidings.)
26 Dec 10 UTC Got a virus on my normal computer, so it will be tough to check this for a bit
26 Dec 10 UTC Merry Christmas, even Austria. How can you hate me? Together we make christmas colours!

Good game gents. I think it was time this one was put out of its misery anyway.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

the_pope (370 D)
Drawn. Bet: 30 D, won: 70 D
14 supply-centers, 14 units
plantimus (188 D)
Drawn. Bet: 30 D, won: 70 D
14 supply-centers, 14 units
Rusty (179 D)
Drawn. Bet: 30 D, won: 70 D
6 supply-centers, 5 units
MrBrent (337 D)
Defeated. Bet: 30 D
GreySZ (179 D)
Defeated. Bet: 30 D
Horsemouth (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 30 D
Salvatmi (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 30 D
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