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Finished: 10 AM Thu 09 Dec 10 UTC
Private Sinfully Diplomatic
2 days /phase
Pot: 162 D - Autumn, 1908, Finished
Classic, Public messaging only, Anonymous players, Survivors-Win Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
25 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: We are all getting out of character. I guess this type of game can't really work.
25 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: No problem, Germany. I realize that I haven't exactly played a stellar game, and I made my first mistake when I didn't bounce Turkey in the Black.

Alright, envy... gosh guys!!! You all have like five centers or more!!1! Except for Turkey. But he doesn't matter.
25 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: Imma put in my draw vote now. A five-way wouldn't be *so* bad, would it Germany?
25 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: The magnificent Sultan has asked me to pass on his approval of a six-way draw! ;-)
26 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: My issue is that you need to learn a simple fact:

Allying with the guy who is going to solo is a dick move. This is why I normally don't do PPSC games, because it rewards people for being a servile adjunct to a dominant partner, instead of allying against him.

I mean, you can judge you de facto ally's reputation on the fate of Turkey... how many times did he claim he wouldn't hurt Turkey?

Where is Turkey now?

I'm personally going to push for your elimination so this lesson sinks in. That, and a 4 way split is better than a 5 way. :)
26 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: Thanks for the lesson, Germany... but quite often allying with the guy who is trying to solo is a good way to stay alive. As it has been in this case. If I had allied with you against Italy, I probably would have been pushed up against him by you and England and been smothered. I got my home centers back working with Italy. (Then I lost them, but that's a different story...)

And Turkey? He got stabbed. Boo hoo. Don't tell me you've never stabbed anyone, Germany.
26 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: There you go slandering my good name again, you oversexed fearmonger. How many times DID I claim I wouldn't hurt Turkey? Lucky for us, the entire chat log is backed up on the server and we can count them! Why don't YOU do the honors?
Dick. I hope England stabs you first.
26 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: Oh, I've stabbed people. Rarely, but I do it (and I do it rarely so that people don't expect it. :) )

Surviving against somebody soloing isn't something to be proud of... it means the other players weren't able to united and stop the solo. Luckily, we managed despite you.

And I for one would have welcomed your help, and would have ensured that England cooperated (if he insisted on being spikey, it would be a simple matter for you + me + France to put paid to him rather quickly, and he would have been smart enough to see that).
26 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: I'm not proud of working with Italy. I just don't see how I would have fit into a Western Triple. And I bet I would have been eliminated anyway, once Italy had been brought down in power sufficiently and you were looking for a new target.
26 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: After I selflessly saved your home centers from Turkish occupation not once, but TWICE you claim you're not proud to work with me? Thanks a lot Russ.
26 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: I laud the power of your bounce to the skies, o great Italy.
26 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: I will be away for a couple of days. It's a bummer to miss this interesting debate unfolding itself (self-facepalm for deteriorating english skills). We should be fine without a pause but you won't hear from me much.

@ England: Irish Sea is nice too. Then your sailor can get some action... err sleep in Dublin.

Bye bye, au revoir.
26 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: My opinion of diplomacy is to win. Survive is the same as loss because the only reason you win at 18 is because it is assumed that you could take over the world with that amount. Although it is a false assumption, it gives a winning objective and puts forth the principle that losing and surviving are the same thing. These PPSC games make it beneficial to survive and work with the winning power, which doesn't make sense. That's why WTA is my preferred game style; it promotes playing to win. There are only winners and losers in Diplomacy. How would you prefer to lose?
27 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: Recommend bouncing again in Sevas so you can retreat to Ukrain and pull the army in Ank back to Sevas in next autumn?
27 Nov 10 UTC Autumn, 1906: Sounds like a plan.
30 Nov 10 UTC Spring, 1907: Oh well. Guess I'm about to be eliminated. Well, good game all!
30 Nov 10 UTC Spring, 1907: Sonuva-- why does everyone always think I'm out to get them? I never even planned on attacking Austria until he thought Tyrolia was a threat! Wake up Russky; the best chance I have at getting a stab out of the west is that someone out there doesn't think a five-way draw is good enough. I'll give it a year before I vote for the draw because I don't want whoever may stab to have to show their hand by being the single odd vote. You head for Sev as planned. Con is headed for the Black.
You think I'm going to give Germany the satisfaction of being right? Screw that.
30 Nov 10 UTC Spring, 1907: With you sitting on 13 centers, anybody who stabs in the West is truely insane.
30 Nov 10 UTC Spring, 1907: Or greedy...
30 Nov 10 UTC Spring, 1907: Russia, it's just a tad threatening when you line up two of your units like that against one of mine. I'm sorry I took it wrong. Again, many thanks for the help!
30 Nov 10 UTC Spring, 1907: You might be able to keep Russia alive, but I'm willing to bet you'll kill him in exchange for a draw.
01 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1907: You're *offering* me a draw to take down Russia? And if I protect Russia... you rescind the offer? Because I'm pretty sure that's exactly why I'm protecting Russia.
01 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1907: You make this a four way and take out Ankara, and I for one will vote for a draw (once Russia is gone, of course).
01 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1907: Wait, why did I say Russia? Excuse me, Italy.
01 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1907: Is anybody else finding me difficult to understand? I *know* that you want a four-way. But I also know that you don't want a five-way. I'm just trying to find out who doesn't want a five-way the most. Naturally the agreement will involve amnesty.
01 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1907: No sweat Russky, I knew you were talking to me.
01 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1907: Thanks, Mario.

Western-Triple-people: this game could be reduced to a three-way remarkably quickly. France, you're in the best position right now to see the light.
01 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1907: Italy, you don't want a draw, and you know it. You want a stab so you can win.
01 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1907: Germany, I'll support you to Warsaw.
01 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1907: Of course I want a stab so I can win. I never argued that point. Russia is the one who's trying to talk you down to a three-way. If you wanted me to offer the five-way this year maybe you shouldn't have teased me by building an army and setting up two unrelated convoy chains.
02 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: Prussia is moving, England.
02 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: I assumed so.
04 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: Dang. Was hoping France would counter Spain - Marseilles. Nicely played Frenchie.

Well that's the best I'm going to do then. The only "progress" I can make now is to take North Africa and get Western Med back in the autumn, which is a stalemate. England obviously isn't going to convoy to Holland. Rumania and Vienna can hold Galicia unless Russky pitches in, which is his death warrant. I think that's about all she wrote, fellas.
04 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: Pretty ballsy leaving Moscow undefended, England.
04 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: I thought of it, but that would leave a unit stranded in Portugal with little options.
04 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: So I assume I just support hold Sev from now on, Italy?
04 Dec 10 UTC Autumn, 1907: And sorry about not taking Moscow.
04 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1908: Not your fault; you shouldn't have been given the option to take Moscow (though I probably would have tried anyway)
But you really should be in Ukraine and Sev instead of Sev and Armenia. Then Sev SH Ukraine until the end of time.
04 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1908: As it is, we could lose some ground, but no SCs. Head for Ukraine; you can't lose anything by trying. If they get into Ukraine then start supporting the hold at Sev.
04 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1908: Yep. Should have fallen back to Urkaine, and disbanded Armenia.

But this means the game is still on, for at least another turn or two.
04 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1908: Alright.
04 Dec 10 UTC Spring, 1908: Does everyone else agree that the farthest I can get pushed back is Galicia to Budapest and Tyrolia to Venice, then Tri & Bud S Vie, Bul & BLA S Rum, and Ven S Pie is a stalemate?
06 Dec 10 UTC Yeah, the draw is pretty much locked in. My vote is in, but I don't like it. :P
06 Dec 10 UTC You goaded me into attacking Turkey and then ganged up on me when I did. Then you accused me of lying to Turkey and tried to get me to do the same to Russia. Forgive me if your acceptance of the situation is not my primary criterion :-P
06 Dec 10 UTC No, I just pointed out that you had more to fear than he did from a 2 front war.

I also didn't expect that he was going to roll over and play dead.
06 Dec 10 UTC That went pretty quick indeed. It's always the proud ones who go down first...
06 Dec 10 UTC Congrats groza528, you played very well!
06 Dec 10 UTC Good game all!
06 Dec 10 UTC Thanks Ursa :)
Good game everyone! Sorry the gimmick kind of broke down.
Still surprised England didn't stab Germany... He probably could have done so without letting me gain any ground.
Russia, thanks for sticking with me, but truthfully I probably would've cut you out if there had been a stab in the west.
Turkey, I was quite fond of your speech patterns... you played pride well and I'm sorry I had to come after you.
07 Dec 10 UTC Thanks everyone - an enjoyable game! No need to feel regret groza - I rashly built two armies in 1901 and then overcommitted them to attacking Russia in 1903 when I should have been more cautious about a possible Italian attack. Certainly an object lesson in how quickly a good start can turn to dust. :-D

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

groza528 (518 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 32 D
13 supply-centers, 13 units
opaque (0 D X)
Drawn. Bet: 22 D, won: 32 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
Ursa (1259 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 32 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
Jack_Klein (897 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 32 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
TBroadley (178 D)
Drawn. Bet: 20 D, won: 32 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
Amb (289 D)
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
FatherSnitch (476 D (B))
Defeated. Bet: 20 D
Civil Disorders
Rorschach Two (100 D)England (Spring, 1902) with 4 centres.
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