Finished: 06 AM Thu 29 Jul 21 UTC
Private Ghost Rating Challenge - Public Press 1
3 days /phase
Pot: 35 D - Autumn, 1909, Finished
Classic, Public messaging only, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Yonni (323 D (S))
20 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: Ehm, Austria, "totally happy with Austria in Tunis" was not the expected answer :O
20 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: It's what Austria is thinking though :)
20 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: Haha, my bad France. Was a long tiring weekend. A French Tunis is fine by me.

And don't mind Germany's ramblings. They don't add up or tempt me.
20 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: Hmm... what do you think of Germany’s ramblings, though, France? It occurs to me that I may have miscalculated. But for the moment, we could lose Moscow without losing the game. We just need to hold the German home centers.

Of course, if Austria supports you into Tunis, that will be the end of any doubts. But things will still be dicey for the next turn. For now, protect Munich at all costs. I’ll handle Berlin.
20 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: We've been so effective at ignoring the static coming from the brown text. Why stop now? Let's just get this over with. I've done everything I can to prove to you that I'm onside here. What more do you want?
20 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: I do trust you, Austria. Really, I do. However, I couldn’t blame you for making a play for the win either.

Once Tunis is securely in France’s hands, there will be no more doubts. There is just one more turn of uncertainty, then we can move forward together in full confidence. Will you be supporting France to Tunis this next turn?
20 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: I agree. Let's just get this over and done with.

Austria, I know what I must do and I encourage you to let me do it. At this point, nothing would give me greater joy. You just have to but reach out with your hand and take what should be rightfully yours.

I have nothing left to play for Austria. You know that I have the power right now to see you into Berlin and Munich. It won't be there in a year.

Besides, what's to lose? You go for it, I lie, you back well off and let them kill me, and you get your 3-way draw you've been dreaming of. You go for it, I don't lie, and you get a solo.

There isn't a world where I survive to the end here. England has made that very clear now (Denmark would've made a difference!) You risk nothing by taking your shot.
20 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: Despite the typo earlier, I will be supporting France to Tunis.
22 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: Yes, I trust Austria too. But I agree with England, this is more or less the last turn where some shenanigans may happen, so let's play this one in a safe way.
So my main move is just WMed into Tunis :)
22 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: Sigh. Okay. One more year...

Support for WMed to Tunis is in.
22 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: Do you have any ideas for a quicker end?
22 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: None that England will agree to by the sound of things. No worries.
22 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: I have an idea for a quicker end, Austria
23 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: Wow, England didn't cover Warsaw like I told them to.

Lesson here folks is never try to eliminate someone on the stalemate line. And if you do, don't make it so obvious (or cooperate to force disband their units)

GG Austria. I'm tapping Baltic, Kiel and Burgundy
23 Jul 21 UTC Spring, 1909: Also, man I'm really bummed because I had left myself an out to avoid the solo here, but England's convoy to Berlin took it away. I never threaten to toss without having a way to undo it.

Had England moved to Warsaw (and France to Piedmont...not sure why that didn't happen either), then Prussia could slide back to Berlin, Warsaw and Piedmont tap the Austrian units, and France double support me to Munich while vacating Holland.
23 Jul 21 UTC Well, unless England and France have some exceedingly persuasive argument they're prepping, I've readied my orders to allow the solo.

Putting my guesses here. Not that they're all truly guesses...

Yonni, good game and well deserved win. I had thought you were Russia at the start, but I guess that's yoak?

Yigg - very glad you survived to the end. It was a pleasure being in a game with you at the beginning, but alas we had bad luck with neighbors, the both of us. Of all the participants I knew your press style best, so was able to pick you out quickly :)

Rounding out my guesses are gimix for England, Pinecone for France, and Talby for Italy.
23 Jul 21 UTC I don't remember the roster, so I cannot deduce who *you* are.
23 Jul 21 UTC I think the last one is Goldie, right?
23 Jul 21 UTC Unless he's actually Yigg just fucking with us.
23 Jul 21 UTC No persuasive arguments ready.
I would never throw a game (although admittedly I have sometimes used that threat, when it seemed it could increase my chances to survive), and I simply don't understand those who do; but I know we Dip players have different, even opposite opinions on almost every aspects of the game, so you'll do what you deem best
23 Jul 21 UTC I'm sure Germany wouldn't normally throw a game either but they can hardly believe that they would survive from this position. Like he said, he could have believed in a double support to Munich but there's no set of moves here that would provide him with long term faith.

I think everyone who has been around for long enough has thrown a game eventually. Some scenarios can't be recovered from and you prove that you can throw the game so you can point to it later when you threaten to throw in the future.
23 Jul 21 UTC I think my philosophy on this has evolved somewhat over time. The me of ~5 years ago would die before causing a solo, as a defeat is better than a survive. But if someone doesn't take your threats seriously, knowing you're all bark and no bite has its disadvantages. Still, I hate doing this - I think this is only my second or third time actually throwing a game. Meanwhile I threaten to throw in *easily* 50% of my games (because while I'm tenacious at surviving, growing big is much rarer for me).

Like I said, I left the door open for you guys to recover from this. Liv-War, Mar-Pie - put me in both Ber and Mun, and I'd be a happy camper.
23 Jul 21 UTC Also that post is now making me think France is Talby
23 Jul 21 UTC "a defeat is better than a survive"

I think it's a mistake that WebDip even differentiates between the two. I tend to lean the same way as you but I think it should be bundled together as a "loss"
23 Jul 21 UTC A loss is a loss is a loss, agreed.
And Germany, your second guess is as wrong as the first one was :P
23 Jul 21 UTC The funny thing is, we spent a few seasons with Austria asking for a 3wd, ie for the elimination of Germany, while England (and me) insisted for the 4wd. Now, from Germany's reaction, it seems like it was the other way round.
23 Jul 21 UTC Now, the situation is very similar to a typical FvA game, where Austria needs to get two of Stp, Ber, Mun, Tun to win. So @Austria, why did you help me in Tunis? And @England, is there a way to stop the Anschluss and deny Austria their 18th sc?
23 Jul 21 UTC I was never all that great at guessing haha.

I disagree that you were ever angling for a 4wd, France. Your 1907 army build showed that. And your statements were always very passive and open to the idea of a 3wd. And I think Austria always intended to solo this, and just knew that the way to the solo was via an attempt to narrow the draw. Tunis was never realistically going to be a part of their line.
24 Jul 21 UTC Well, there you go.

And thanks Goldie. :) Eh, I think I'm giving up on ever trying to hide who I am. I just can't help outing myself with my style.

By the by, France and England, if my survival helps in any way in establishing a better line by putting me in Tunis, please let me know. I'm game, if it matters. If not, O7.
25 Jul 21 UTC Well, it appears I have screwed everything up. My apologies to my allies. I suppose this is to be expected, given that I was one of the weaker players on the list here.

There is still one out, though, I think. Germany, move Prussia to Berlin. If I support the move with Baltic, and France supports it with Kiel, then it's a guaranteed take. And we can stalemate Berlin, can we not?

I'll leave Denmark alone, Germany. You'll need to disband Denmark and keep Ruhr. But a stalemate is still possible if we still cooperate.
25 Jul 21 UTC Also, France, supporting you from MAO to Western Med.
25 Jul 21 UTC Check that--I'm covering Tunis. You've got the firepower to get into Western Med without me.
25 Jul 21 UTC No self- dislodgement, England. The move to Berlin cannot work. There's no guaranteed way to see me in.

And even then, if I'm not in Munich as well, then I'm disposable still.
25 Jul 21 UTC Also, any plan that requires me to disband will also not work.
25 Jul 21 UTC Your support can’t even contribute to a self-dislodgement that’s also being cause by other people’s supports?
25 Jul 21 UTC Well, regardless, here’s a backup plan: Bur and Ruhr support Berlin to Munich, while Baltic supports Prussia to Berlin. Kiel supports one move or the other. It’s a coin toss, but Austria cannot block both moves—he’ll have to guess, and if he guesses wrong he’ll either get Munich disbanded or allow Germany back into Berlin.
25 Jul 21 UTC And if you’re worried about disbanding, Germany, France can just leave Holland
25 Jul 21 UTC Goldie did a great job of making himself indispensable. He worked out put himself in a position that, if stabbed, would be able to throw the game. None of these proposals leave him with the same leverage. They all just help facilitate a 3WD.
25 Jul 21 UTC Leave him with one centre and I'll just pull back even further this time and be done with it.
25 Jul 21 UTC So what moves would satisfy you all?
25 Jul 21 UTC There is not much time and I'm going to sleep now. I will read you're answers if any just before the deadline. Should no reply come I hereby announce. I'm retreating Hol to Bel, and moving Kie back to Mun with support. Germany can cut it of course, or perhaps add to it. We'll see
26 Jul 21 UTC The move to Munich cannot work, England. Austria has three supports. It's impossible for us to dislodge Munich without one of them being cut. So your move would leave me out of Berlin and once again, eliminated. And no, your support can't contribute to a self-dislodgement. At least as far as I understand the rules.

There's simply no way to put me into Berlin other than a two turn move - and that still leaves Austria in Munich.

The only proposal that would somewhat work is convoying Berlin to Sweden, but given the fact that you haven't proposed it, I don't really put much stock in your sincerity.

And frankly, the level of concessions I'd be looking for would put me eventually into Sweden, Belgium, Paris - enough SCs to disband every single one of your units not needed for the line.

That's the level I was looking for, and y'all fell short.
26 Jul 21 UTC *Watching the world burn*
26 Jul 21 UTC Good game everyone,

I'll admit that I didn't expect to get anywhere close to the solo. I think you guys just agreed to eliminate Germany at exactly the wrong time. If England had agreed to eliminate him even at the beginning on of last year, there would have been enough time to deal with Germany's reaction. But, really, there was no reason to leave him around as a wild card. Germany could have safely been eliminated a few year ago.
26 Jul 21 UTC I never understand how people can guess who other people are from their press (unless Gold figured out who I was from my pause requests?). But it was a fun game with everyone. Hopefully we can play another some time. I hadn't done much PP before but it's a fun dynamic.
26 Jul 21 UTC I'm always down for some Public Press!

Good game, Yonni! Go team Y!
26 Jul 21 UTC Well dang I just had my France and England mixed-up in my guessing.

And Yonni, yeah it was the pause request for you. Like I said I thought you were Russia initially.

I was really unnecessary for the final draw, Yonni is right. My game was really screwed when gimix just decided they hated Germany, and Russia didn't agree with my initial alliance request. So I'm happy I was able to recover to the extent I did.
27 Jul 21 UTC GG everyone, and congrats to Yonni for winning!

I agree with the assessment that I attacked Germany at the wrong time. Ironically, I was waiting because I didn't think he could be safely eliminated until I eventually went for it, and ended up screwing myself (and France--sorry France). But oh well. Austria played a fantastic game, and deserves the victory.
28 Jul 21 UTC gg everyone and congrats on the win Yonni. I definitely didn’t quite get the hang of public press which given Italy is probably the power where you most need to communicate with everyone on the board I ended up very lost!
06 Aug 21 UTC Ok, I've been away for a few days, so I was happy the game was going to an end.
Just wanted to say GG everybody, and congrats to Yonni (though I don't agree with Goldie's choice of throwing the game). And @Pinecone, thanks for your support and please note I am to blame as much as you are for the final result

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Austria
Yonni (323 D (S))
Won. Bet: 5 D, won: 35 D
18 supply-centers, 14 units
France
gimix (1522 D Mod)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
8 supply-centers, 7 units
England
Pinecone333 (217 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
6 supply-centers, 7 units
Germany
goldfinger0303 (3152 D Mod)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
2 supply-centers, 3 units
Turkey
Yigg (2451 D)
Survived. Bet: 5 D
0 supply-centers, 1 units
Italy
Talby2 (265 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Russia
yoak (1777 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
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