Finished: 04 PM Tue 26 May 20 UTC
Private Diplomacy in the Time of Coronavirus - Game 2
1 day /phase
Pot: 35 D - Spring, 1911, Finished
Classic, Rulebook press, Sum-of-Squares Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
02 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1902: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
02 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1902: Sorry for the delay, all, I overslept.
02 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1902: Can we all ready our orders at like 7 pm eastern tonight so turns end at night?
02 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1902: I like that plan
02 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1902: I'll have to ready in advance today because school things but I generally like the idea
02 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1902: That's fine, just make sure you've clicked ready before this evening!
07 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1904: Hey if folks are set with their orders tonight and don't anticipate changes we should all hit "I'm ready" so we can have the turn change tonight at like 8 instead of during the day.
07 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1904: If your orders are set, please clock ready so we can move to the next phase
10 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1905: GameMaster: Game was extended due to at least 1 member failing to enter orders and having an excused missed turn available. This has un-readied all orders.
11 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1905: Sorry everyone! Got caught up in Mother's Day. I'll get us back on track now.
25 May 20 UTC I think we should do a draw, how do you all feel turkey and Germany?
25 May 20 UTC I'm good for a draw too
26 May 20 UTC Already put the vote in.
26 May 20 UTC Same. good game all! Do folks want t to do after action discussion?
26 May 20 UTC Good game, all!
26 May 20 UTC Would happily do a post-mortem.
26 May 20 UTC For my part, I spent the first few years in alliance with Russia. We tried to make some prearranged moves to disguise it, but we weren't super successful. Ultimately, Russia's foundering up north and some good entreaties convinced me to stab him, which was almost painfully easy.

I tried to work somewhat with Austria to keep him around as a gadfly (it brought me no sadness to see him in Rumania or Venice from time to time), but ultimately my view that there can be no peace between Austria and Turkey won the day for me again.

Italy's stab was a little surprising but not terribly. I could have stayed a bit better prepared for it, but only losing Serbia and Greece with Italy having no real prospects for growing more means that I don't feel too terribly about it. And certainly no hard feelings.
26 May 20 UTC Early game, I had to pick which of England, France, or Russia to fight first. Germany and Austria should never fight in the early game. Ever.

My first four turns were all about making sure England and France were really going to fight each other. Once I saw that that would indeed happen I turned my attention to Russia and took what I could.

When France had nearly defeated England, I worried I'd be the next obvious target for France so I encouraged Italy to stab, which was 100% a smart thing for him to do. Game changer for both of us.

The Italy stab of France however, meant that England would be free to hit my vulnerable centers adjacent to the North Sea. I wanted to take Italy out before Turkey targetted me.

Problem was that 1. Russia reeeally slowed me down by taking Norway (and also by cutting my support for my move to North Sea in Fall 1907) and 2. I got greedy and took Vienna and Warsaw, which ended up hurting more than helping.

Because of those two things, when Turkey predictably stabbed me in Fall 1907, I was stuck fighting a difficult multi-front war.

Geography helped though as it was always going to be easier for Italy and Turkey to take from each other than me. Italy, recognizing that, stabbed Turkey in Spring 1909.

With Italy and Turkey refocused on each other, I could stabilize and take out England. I did so, then stabbed Italy, mostly to make sure he couldn't take 18 centers.

By the last turn, I think I was best positioned on the board. I was guaranteed Paris in 1910 if I wanted it and could convoy A Norway to the UK to help take Edi and Liverpool, all with a relatively safe eastern flank.

Nevertheless, I'd rather take the fair draw we agreed to now, than slug out for longer hoping for more. Turkey and Italy realigned to stop me if I pressed for that much more.

All in all, very fun dynamic game. Great play all around.
26 May 20 UTC I agree, Germany. I think any two powers could probably combine to take down the third, but doing so in a way that wouldn't cause constantly reshifting allegiance seemed unlikely. This draw is a fair outcome indeed.
26 May 20 UTC I'd also say that this reconfirmed my distaste for playing Turkey. It's very tactical and linear, and that style of play doesn't appeal to me as much. (Though I know some players love Turkey so it's definitely just a matter of taste.)
27 May 20 UTC So first a bit of out of game info - this is the 2nd time I can remember ever playing diplomacy and the first time I finished (I previously played at an event the person who played England hosted, but we stopped in I think 1906?).

The other thing is I'm very much a believer if being a man of my word, which while a quality I'm proud of doesn't suit this game. None the less, I think of the stabs I did in this, all but one (France, sorry!) came after the other person had disagreed on a near term plan to be be the game.

So with that context here we go:

When I saw I was Italy I was resigned to losing, because I know Italy is hard to play. To add to it, Germany forced a peace on Austria and I which was probably for the best, but closed off one avenue, and in the start going to France seemed like a bad idea.

My plan initially was to Lepanto, but Frances move to the gulf of Lyons forced me to redirect, and by the time it was clear Austria had mostly collapsed and the eastern med was not open.

At that point I worked to keep Austria as a buffer for a bit and I was probably more patient with him than I ought to have been, esp when he occupied Venice. But truth be told that suited me OK since if had hadn't been there Turkey or Russia may have been.

The stab of France came about because I realized that if I didn't take this opening, I would definitely.lose. whether France went after me first or Germany it didn't matter she would be able to overwhelm me and I'd have no way to stop it, esp. if she divided the spoils with Turkey.

So I bit the bullet and swung over. As mentioned while I would have preferred Austria stay in treiste, I'm glad they had their army in Venice once I think Turkey took Treiste. Or I'd have had Turkey in Venice and that seemed less fun.

France didn't go as quickly as I wanted, partly because of a few poor moves.on my part (namely not bouncing them out of MAO). Still I was able to do it largely because Turkey and Germany had their own problems which let me shore up.

I didn't actually know Germany was planning on stabbing me, though I can understand the logic. I never had terribly much forces out west. I feel like geography wise it was probably for the best of both of us that you didn't.

I planned to stab Turkey pretty early on - both for tactical reasons and because they didn't seem to like the idea of a three way draw, and honestly was a little surprised you didn't stab earlier until Germany explained the stalemate lines to me. I think I stabbed at the right time, but didn't manage the tactics as well as I could have. If I had I may have been better positioned to grab Budapest and Smyrna.

I was a little surprised though in retrospect I shouldn't have been by Germany's late stab. I understand the logic but, as I pointed out to him, I couldn't have made any more meaningful gains without him anyway.

I agree with both of you that a draw was the only outcome at this point. Otherwise we'd have a game that would last forever and wouldn't have been any fun. When I was at 14 the idea of winning it all did obviously appeal, but I didn't see any good growth opportunities and I wanted to keep my deal with Germany anyway.

All in all this was fun but ultimately more mental energy than I expected. Definitely apologize to Germany who I blew up a lot with messages about this.
27 May 20 UTC Yeah, Italy, I'll admit that I always had my eye open to go after you, but I never quite saw an opening that would've made any sense. There was a time in 1904 or 1905, right around when you were convincing me to attack Russia, that I could've gotten into the Ionian, but I would have had basically no chance to hold it.

Even through 1908 and 1909 I was trying to keep my eye open for a chance but you never left me a way. (And I regret shifting so much to the north to move against Germany where I think I had better opportunities.)
27 May 20 UTC Yea, I was very conscious that my only way to get you to go after Russia or Germany was to make going after me look like way too much work, and I guess that worked.

That did leave the opportunity for Germany to go after my stuff in the west, but I was trusting on mutual interest there - and it largely held.

And eh, I think the only thing I would have changed if I were you I'd putting an army in Greece and fleets in both seas. I was very happy you didn't do that.
27 May 20 UTC Turkey, was part of your plan to secure centers west of the St. Pete to N. Africa stalemate line before stabbing Italy? Such that you wouldn't be trapped east of the line by a unified opposition like last game?
27 May 20 UTC Italy and I were talked and he was wondering why you seemingly hadn't tried to stab him yet.

I, admittedly kind of desperately, suggested it was because you wanted to secure centers west of the stalemate line first so as to better enable a solo win.
27 May 20 UTC *were talking (prior to him stabbing you)
27 May 20 UTC No, I just literally never saw an opportunity! Going through the positions from 1905 through the end, there was never I time that I could've broken out against him. I had been hoping to convince him to swing around against you through France, but you apparently got him to switch.
27 May 20 UTC did find the stalemate line plausible since I don't know the meta super well.

But besides that I felt that me engaging Germany would ultimately only gain for Turkey. Tbh the thing that did more to sway me was the fact that Alex had a ton more forced he could push west than I had to spare and he made it clear he'd focus on fighting me.

But I'm glad my line was that good!

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Italy
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 16 D
13 supply-centers, 13 units
Germany
APiscia (165 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 11 D
11 supply-centers, 11 units
Turkey
NoahMamis (116 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 9 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
Russia
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
England
seyaffe (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
France
SleeperCell (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Austria
thunderecon (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
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