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Finished: 12 PM Tue 05 May 20 UTC
Private Pog sleepwalkers
2 days /phase
Pot: 35 D - Autumn, 1905, Finished
Classic, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
02 May 20 UTC Autumn, 1904: Ready button one time?
02 May 20 UTC Spring, 1905: I would just like to point out that I supported Turkey into Serbia and HE stabbed ME...

So i dunno why he's suiciding into me like a jilted lover rn. If anyone figures it out let me know

03 May 20 UTC Spring, 1905: Sorry team- had a crazy yesterday. Back in
03 May 20 UTC One of these days I wont screw that move up.
03 May 20 UTC It's done right? Russia takes Greece, Budapest, and Munich for the win.

With Germany and Turkey supporting?

All he had to do was trade a potential lifelong POG friend. lmao.

GG All. Fun game.

FeelsBadMan, I valued the friend more than the win. No regrets about that. Still a shame.
03 May 20 UTC Catch you next one :thumb:
03 May 20 UTC (England i know you wanna keep fighting but i don't see Turkey/Germany prolonging this when they have other options. If you know of a way this isn't over send me a message. Looks over tho :p)
03 May 20 UTC I would like to click the tie button. Everyone else in the game do the same please
03 May 20 UTC I clicked draw (you can see it in the bottom right). I am never playing again. I was convinced that ethically I had to play for a solo of it was possible but that was by people who had never played this game and don’t understand that it really does become more than a game.

I am truly sorry to Italy
03 May 20 UTC If you guys don’t want to click draw I am going to click hold every move and not build, so you can joint win, or you can just all click draw with me please. I am not playing on
03 May 20 UTC Games are for fun guys. Let's not get bogged down in ethics.

The journey was fun, we can ignore the destination.

I will click draw if you insist! Take the solo and we can wait a while and play again and develop all new trust issues. lmao :P

gg everyone
03 May 20 UTC I am not playing anymore so please click draw everyone. If anyone is not happy with that I’m not going to build/move/play so just click draw instead of playing so you don’t waste your time.

If anyone feels like I wasted their time in this game for doing that, I understand, but I don’t care anymore, I can’t take it and don’t want to continue playing
03 May 20 UTC First time diplo blues
03 May 20 UTC I get that.
03 May 20 UTC It's ok Russia!

I was upset earlier. I'm already over it!
Forget about it man <3

I would definitely play again some time. I guess I'm a sucker for punishment xD

gg friends!
03 May 20 UTC Gg everyone. Yeah this game is fun for the strategic elements but it’s not for everyone, it’s def not for me heh. Thx for playing.
03 May 20 UTC Well you saved us all time tbh, the game was headed to one of two inevitable conclusions that i don't think anyone but us would have enjoyed anyway xD
03 May 20 UTC I'm cool with a draw. I think Russia probably wins with Germany supporting inevitably, and so that's how I'll see it!
03 May 20 UTC Gg Russia.
03 May 20 UTC Sorry Germany. My reasoning for turning was:
- Italy and I were in a stalemate. There was no way either of us could take anything from the other in the South
- Russia was about to take over Turkey in its entirety. This would give them the power of the juggernaught on there own. They'd cruise for a win. I thought Itly would see this and turn
- italy didnt turn and and I couldn't really help you survive. My only choice was to join in attacking you and hope italy would turn fast enough.

Sorry- it didnt work out for you at all, and you fairly turned on me hard.
03 May 20 UTC Ya myself and russia had a final 2 deal so i was never going for the 3-way draw when a 2-way was already on the table. Sorry about that.

I was the one who basically forced England to stab you, to further the Italy/Russia 2-way...but I think he would have done it without me so i won't take all the blame!! xD

His preference was to support you but i declined o.0
03 May 20 UTC ^ at Germany
03 May 20 UTC You should have helped me attack England when i was trying to subtly suggest you to do so...but you are a good dude, you wanted the honourable 3-way
03 May 20 UTC Fs to Turkey and Austria too.

Turkey, you were right to stab me since i was already in cahoots with Russia.
But i was still annoyed. lmao
03 May 20 UTC @Germany- we should have expanded north faster.
03 May 20 UTC I dunno what happened with that early french war...but some of those moves were...not optimal

that's the nicest way to say that xD

The fact France is even alive in 1905 is a god damn miracle
03 May 20 UTC I made so many mistakes. Phone playing is bad.
03 May 20 UTC it gave us newbs a chance ;)
03 May 20 UTC Let's get this part over with for fun:

I'm Apoc
03 May 20 UTC Russia already told me he's FeedMyKids.
Send him your love, he feels REALLY bad about winning! haha :p
(He should stop that at once though!)
03 May 20 UTC Doctor Zeus is me
03 May 20 UTC In terms of game strategy, related to what England said to Germany about moving faster in the north, the move I was most proud about was:

I had sev empty and was attacking turkey, and had nothing in st p. It was pretty clear Denmark and Norway were gonna take sweden and overrun me (I think Italy implied it to me, but also obviously where is a German/English alliance gonna go except Scandinavia then Russia)

I realized if I left sev open and went Moscow to st p I was fine even when you took sweden. I was thinking I could retreat from sweden to Baltic and if I controlled Baltic and gob with an army on st p that was a great situation. After it happened though I realized I could retreat to ska and force take Norway, then the Denmark unit would be boxed in and basically you guys could never take the north.

I think England realized that he and Germany couldn’t take the north anymore, and he was stalemated by Italy in the south, so his only chance then was to go against Germany since he seemed like a rational player. If I didn’t go to gob and North to Moscow that move leaving sev open they could have overrun me in the north, but now they were 1 move too slow
03 May 20 UTC My other big decision in the game that I had was once Austria was attacked and Italy had kinda played all options early (which seems like a good strategy if you’re Italy) but wouldn’t commit to anything, but I think they didn’t help by taking trieste or something, Turkey was clearly attacking Italy, so I had to choose who to ally with. At that point, I trusted turkey more. But I think if I went with turkey Italy would have allied with Germany/England to stop us and it seemed like they could. If I went with Italy, even if turkey wanted to ally with Germany/England they are boxed in so the German-England alliance couldn’t help them and we could force take turkey, then have more units than Germany and England. So geographically it seemed better to work with Italy even if I trusted turkey more at that time. Turkey seemed like a good dude though. Germany too but we were kinda forced to war geographically I think.
03 May 20 UTC Yh you played well Russia. V good moves.
03 May 20 UTC I wanted to get rid of France, and if I'd been less selfish would have been possible. Give Germany Marseilles faster, and wed have moved north
03 May 20 UTC I just feared if I did that I'd pretty much give up the solo and thought I had a good shot at that point....perhaps too obviously
03 May 20 UTC After that I probably spent like several hours per spring/autumn discussing my moves with Italy. They seemed super strong socially and tactically and also seemed to spend a lot of time thinking about the tactics. Sometimes they would have to lolme since I didn’t know some of the rules, so going over the tactics and strategy with them before every move helped me a lot. Happy I went with them because I do think if I had gone with turkey Italy woulda joined England/Germany out of necessity to stop us. Also turkey had Black Sea so in a 2 way tie scenario with them if we got there they could easily stab me (to their credit they actually tried to move out of the Black Sea but I had already decided on Italy before that happened so I didn’t know it was gonna happen). It’s a lot of pressure for Russia when turkey controls Black Sea to work with them since the stabs are too easy
03 May 20 UTC Yeah Italy and I were talking about how unbalanced your gains were in your alliance with Germany. Italy and I kept evening it up
03 May 20 UTC @russia was it an impulse or planned stab?
03 May 20 UTC That’s why this game is weird. You have to work with someone and not get too big in your alloance, but then you can’t solo unless you betray them at the end. And then that means lying to someone directly that you have spent dozens of hours working with for a month. If a game doesn’t even feel good to “win” you shouldn’t play it. At the same time you’re worried if you just tell them your moves and do them, they can fuck you and solo and you feel like an idiot.

Thx for saying my moves were good. I enjoyed that aspect and Italy helped me a lot there, I just don’t enjoy lying, and I don’t enjoy having to worry that they are lying, and that’s the game so I just think I shouldn’t play haha
03 May 20 UTC I think you can get away without lying but your game plan has to really buy in to it
03 May 20 UTC I was thinking: I must always plan it so I cannot he stabbed, else they might stab. Likewise, I won’t stab, but if given the opportunity to do so with a lock win, do I morally have to for game integrity etc?

Everything I searched for online showed there was no consensus.

So basically the way it went down I saw on the board that Italy had no defense against me, and I had a geographically/positionally perfect setup, so I had a lock win. I didn’t plan it but when I saw it happen I saw it. I didn’t know what I was supposed to do. But at the end of the day I actually wanted to joint win with Italy over solo because we spent so much time working together and I really enjoyed it/them. I didn’t know if game integrity required me to go for the win, and I also didn’t know if they were planning to screw me and stab this move (this move was the only move to do it, after that we could stalemate). I made the wrong choice and view this game as a joint win with Italy
03 May 20 UTC Like I don’t feel bad about lying to you or germany, that made sense since the game felt like a team game with Italy against you 2 so whatever (loke bluffing in poker). Lying to Italy feelslike cheating on my girlfriend or something. Dunno if that makes any sense
03 May 20 UTC If i had known your friends were members of a professional gamer ethics board maybe I would have worked harder to make the stab mechanically impossible...and save you the agony of trying to decide what the ethical choice is! :D

I blame myself! ;)
03 May 20 UTC you did ask me to make it impossible, i just didn't think much of it...and it would have taken longer that way :D
03 May 20 UTC "Lying to Italy feelslike cheating on my girlfriend or something."
lmao xD

i am way more chill than an angry girlfriend.

Maybe jilted Turkey is not the same though :P

(seriously though you'll have to explain that one to me!)
03 May 20 UTC why not attack russia xD
03 May 20 UTC ok, im gonna go outside or do something other than post-game

I think we have covered all our bases. Much love to everyone. gg!
03 May 20 UTC Gg all!
03 May 20 UTC (And in case turkey/Germany/France don’t wanna read all of that, we all agreed to click draw so pls do that)

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

feedmykids (100 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 6 D
11 supply-centers, 11 units
Apoc (115 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 6 D
9 supply-centers, 9 units
Doctor Zeus (113 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 6 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
bolt2112 (100 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 6 D
3 supply-centers, 2 units
irtm (101 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 6 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 6 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
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