Finished: 07 PM Wed 17 Mar 10 UTC
Featured No mimes allowed
1 day /phase
Pot: 853 D - Autumn, 1903, Finished
Classic, Survivors-Win Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
12 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Could you find a sitter to take over the game?
12 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: This is actually literally the last time I will be able to be online until the end of the trip, so if you guys could find one, that would be just dandy.
12 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Everyone good with a pause so we can find a new Rus?
12 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Fine by me.
12 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I don't pause. But why join a game if you were planning a trip and knew you woudl be out of touch?
12 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I understand why pausing is sometimes a pain, but in this case, I can't imagine the pause would last long at all. Rus is in a good position, so I'm sure we can get replacement quickly and game the game restarted.
12 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Pausing.
12 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Italy, can you please pause. It would be good to get a new player for Russia.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: The Russo-Turkish position doesn't look so tenable any more.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I guess it helps if you enter orders... can anyone confirm that for me? D'oh!
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I was wondering why you logged in but didn't enter orders...

Austria, you've got to be loving these NMR's, eh?
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: It's one of the realities of the postal or internet-based game, unfortunately. One of the bigger adjustments to make from face-to-face playing.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: So we should still try to get a replacement for Russia. Can we get GhostMaker to help us replace Artbrut?
BESM, it would make things better if you would Pause. We all hope it will not be for long.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I think that the widespread NMR's have compromised the integrity of this game. BESM, if you are unwilling to pause because you fear it would take too long to restart, then perhaps we should cancel, then restart the game with players who can commit on the forum that they will be able to play the entire game.

What say you all?
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I've never canceled a game and not really interested in restarting this one. I don't like NMRs, but they happen. I don't pause for many reasons, but don't really need to justify them to you. Pause or no pause is up to each of the players playing, not up to those who seem to think they know best. You will notice that Russia's NMR doesn't help me and probably helps you. I do think people should play the game they signed up for, but that isnt the case here.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I know that Russia's imminent CD might be beneficial to me, but I also feel that it is against the spirit of the game to eagerly take advantage of that fact. Would a draw be more satisfactory to you? We each would be awarded more points than we put in.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I am fine with a draw, I'd even enjoy playing with the same group again. If no one is eliminated, the points go back equally, so no change. I don't know how you thought we would end up with more than we put in. There are many parts to the spirit of the game including allowing for the unforseen. Haven't you been a game with a good ally who disappears to be replaced by an opportunistic SOB who chews you up into little pieces? I think we should blame Major for any problems. Either way, if everyone wants a draw, I'll draw. Though it would seem not really in everyone's interest to draw.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Funny, Italy. Let us not blame the Major, and let's take the "E" and "M" from BESM's name and just call him BS.
I will gladly DRAW because I screwed up my first moves.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I wasn't really blaming you, Mr. Major, just seemed Eng needed someone to blame, figured it was your party, so your fault. I was going to figure out what I could make out of the letters of your name, but too much work. Still, nice to be in a game with you again. By the way, missing moves shouldn't be rewarded with a do-over if we care about the spirit of the game.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I will say that this is the first game in years when I've been able to run any form of Lepanto, so that has made it fun.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: So glad you are entertained. I know I must sleep in the bed that I made for myself, but if everyone else wants a Draw/Cancel/Do-over... who am I to object. LOL.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: No, I'm not blaming anybody. The original France perhaps shouldn't have joined a game and then ignored it, and I don't know the situation with Russia so I won't comment on it. But because a new France took over, thereby increasing the pot, if it is divided by 7 in a draw we will get more than we put in.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Just do the math.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Yes, England, I see now how smart you are. I stand corrected.
Turkey, Not everyone wants the draw, cance., whatever. I don't and I don't see France or Aus or Ger commenting. For now, the game seems to be going on. Either way, lovely to be in the game. Always entertaining.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I'm more inclined to draw than cancel, but not until Rus officially goes CD and loses her/his bet. That said, I must say that, like Ita, I'm not particularly interested in taking that step. NMR's and CD's, annoying as they may be, are a part of postal and internet games, and I don't think they should automatically wipe out whole games. That said, I admit that I have perhaps the most to gain from a CD Rus, so I will consider reasonable arguments for the draw.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Good point, I forgot that Russia would forfeit his share of the pot, so the remaining six of us would receive ~142 points each.

I understand that CD's are sometimes an unfortunate part of the game, but it's 1902 and two countries have/will be in CD and Turkey had an NMR. I know that you will benefit most from a CD Russia, Austria, but as one who led the charge to pause when France was gone, it would seem a bit hypocritical to object now.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I'm fine with a draw after Rus is gone after he's CD. I hate CDs and really hate NMRs, but I'm not unreasonable. One strange thing about the cite is that CD players can come back, I say we wait until he's Left and then I'm fine with the draw. I'm up for restarting.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I will go however the consensus goes, but as BS said, it would be good to play another game with the same group of characters.
France, we all joined because we enjoy a good chatty game. We encourage you to join in the dialogue. Don't be intimidated by anyone here. We are like a box of Granola... fruits, nuts, and flakes.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Actually, I'm more like fruitcake, but granola probalby works for the rest of them.
By the way, Major, if we start another game(you could start one iwth a password) and I get Italy again, I will definately know it's all about me.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: ROFL
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I don't know about the charge of hypocrisy. True, I led the charge for a pause when we had a CD Fra, but I also led the charge for a pause when Rus announced s/he would withdraw from the game. There's something of a difference there.

A pause freezes the game and generally doesn't punish or reward anyone; remaining players must adjust to the new player, but that's just more diplomacy. A real-world comparison would be a change of government that leads to a change of war strategy, not unlike Australia's withdrawal of troops from Iraq when Rudd unseated Howard as PM. A premature draw punishes players who, through diplomacy and tactics, made gains against her/his neighbors.

Eng, certainly you recognize the difference; when confronted by a CD Fra in 1901, you voted for a pause but did not call for a draw or cancel. So I reject your ad hominem attack, but a reaffirm my vote for a pause so that we can find a new Rus.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I agree with most of what redguy said, except I don't pause or cancel. I'll do the draw, once Russia is gone or play it as it lies.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I share Italy's concerns with pauses, and I also think a draw is a better solution.

Austria, I understand that you might be drooling at the prospect of an absent Russia, but I hardly think you'd be "punished" by accepting a draw. We'd all come out 32 points richer than when the game started.

A passworded game with people who affirm their commitment to play the entire game would seem best.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I'll sign up. 150 per?
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I'm fine with that. Would you vote for a draw then, Italy?
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: yes, but only after the spring after Rus is marked left. I really think those who don't show up should be punished.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Besides, if he's not gone, he holds up everything while the machine waits for him to vote.
13 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: If mine is the final vote for the draw, I'll give it.
15 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: hey guys, sorry for not participating more.
obviously i'd love a draw given my situation. i also agree with italy that pauses don't usually work.
also, russia won't be marked as left until after the autumn, right?
15 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: I knew I liked france for a reason.
15 Mar 10 UTC Autumn, 1902: Just a point, if we had paused when Rus wanted it, we'd never be back.
15 Mar 10 UTC Spring, 1903: Russia will be "Left" after this phase.
15 Mar 10 UTC Spring, 1903: I think you are right.
By the way, I started a new, annon game for 200 called "Trust me, I only want to borrow Belguim". No password, 1 day time limits, and starts in about 12 hours for anyone who wants a do over. I thought annon would be best since we all know eachother now.
16 Mar 10 UTC Austria, Turkey, will you be drawing?
16 Mar 10 UTC Draw everyone?
16 Mar 10 UTC ...?
16 Mar 10 UTC Just waiting for you, Austria.
16 Mar 10 UTC OK... worthy adversaries. Thanks for the game.
Shall we start over?
I could not find BESMs game that he started.
16 Mar 10 UTC My game was cancelled. Time ran out. I'll start another annon, 150 buy in unless someone else wants to. Major perhaps.
16 Mar 10 UTC Good game all. We'll meet again.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Austria
V+ (3714 D)
Drawn. Bet: 110 D, won: 142 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
Germany
Hereward77 (930 D)
Drawn. Bet: 110 D, won: 142 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
Italy
BESM (18622 D)
Drawn. Bet: 110 D, won: 142 D
6 supply-centers, 6 units
England
WRB (2664 D)
Drawn. Bet: 110 D, won: 142 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
Turkey
MajorFopa (1409 D)
Drawn. Bet: 110 D, won: 142 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
France
Frank (234 D)
Drawn. Bet: 83 D, won: 142 D
2 supply-centers, 2 units
Russia
artbrut (100 D)
Resigned. Bet: 110 D
4 supply-centers, 3 units
Civil Disorders
artbrut (100 D)Russia (Spring, 1903) with 4 centres.
diplonerd (193 D)France (Autumn, 1901) with 3 centres.
Archive: Orders - Maps - Messages