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Finished: 04 PM Sat 04 Feb 17 UTC
1 day /phase
Pot: 50 D - Autumn, 2014, Finished
Fall of the American Empire IV, Public messaging only, Anonymous players, Draw-Size Scoring, Hidden draw votes
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
30 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 2012: I take it from the general tone of conversation that the majority of players are considering/voting draw?
30 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 2012: It would appear so.
30 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 2012: I have not taken my draw vote down since I put it up 5-6 turns ago.
Heartlands put up a draw vote earlier, and sounds like they're still up for it?
NY is voting draw.
Florida said they'd do it if we killed all the small countries (only NY left at this point), but that might have changed since their recent success against Heartlands.
Mexico is silent.
(This is California's color commentary, signing off!)
30 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 2012: I still wish to kill NY but I voted draw. so only Mexico?
30 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 2012: shouldn't we draw after this autumn?
31 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 2012: Heartlands draw is still up.
31 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 2012: Peru still hasn't committed to anything either, but I'm hopeful that they would if Mexico decided to vote draw.
31 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 2012: Peru was kind of hoping for a good long battle to the bitter end (just to find out how good a player i am). I thought that was the object of the game?

Having said that, if mexico votes draw along with everyone else, i wont be difficult......
31 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 2012: I'm not sure you're going to get any bitter battles, because Heartland (the most successful player currently) will win before they reach you centers, if they win at all. If you want a fight, idling in the corner won't get it for you.
31 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 2012: I'm happy to beat my neighbours, loose to my neighbours, or spectate from the corner. Whichever way, i get to learn how this map -and game- works.

Unless i am missing something, does voting draw on a game with a lot of participants still involved not prematurely end the fun?
31 Jan 17 UTC Autumn, 2012: You've entered the same moves for three turns now. How is holding four of your six units "fun?"
31 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 2013: I'll conceed the last few turns have stagnated some, principaly because florida keeps getting in the way though.......

It has provided opportunity though to observe what others do, tactics used, and counter-moves that are made. Im playing with the assumption there are stil a fair few moves ahead.......
31 Jan 17 UTC Spring, 2013: ......hence my reluctance for the 'draw' vote......
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: Well Peru, you're certainly doing things now....I'd appreciate it if you didn't raid my coast and make my life any harder. I can hardly keep Heartlands back as it is.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: So who are our holdouts? Peru and Mexico?
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: Correct.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: Would you mind pulling back, Heartlands? Your east coast is under attack, and our little feud is leaving me vulnerable to the two people who are not currently interested in a draw.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: So the rest of us have basically decided that we are ready to end the game, but they are forcing us to continue?

What would happen if the four of us decided to stop attacking each other and head South instead? I don't think I'll do any better than 19, so I'll happily award any new territories to my neighbors... Just a thought.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: I imagine Florida's feeling some pressure from Peru in the south, that's for sure.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: You need support into Colorado CA?
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: I'd love more centers as much as the next guy, but I'm curious: What you gain by putting me in the way of your expansion? Worried about Peru? Going to attack Arizona?
I'm even more curious about why you won't draw, though.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: Ok, let's do this...

Florida, please use Arkansas to support Colorado into Oklahoma. In the fall, I'll support you into Dallas. You can keep Mass, I won't miss it.

California, I'll move another unit into Colorado, but if you want to position Arizona and Nevada for an assault on Chihuahua, I can break support in New Mexico.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: If I'm going to do anything with you, I want Saskatoon (and preferable Montana, too) to move away from me.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: Just trying to get you a city back. You Lost Hawaii. Do you need support into Colorado?
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: You can support me into Colorado too. Either or. Think about it.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: Done.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: Re: Saskatchewan, that is.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: I appreciate your thought, Mexico, but this is diplomacy, and you're not voting for a draw, so I can only assume you intend to solo, and it's not in my interest to do that.
If you could just explain to me why you aren't drawing, maybe I could make a more informed decision.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: Thank you, Heartlands.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: I'd watch out for that Lima fleet, Mexico. Peru would be overextending pretty far to mount a full naval offensive on me just when I'm making peace with Heartlands.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: I've had a draw vote made for a long time. We seem to be in a stalemate. Fyi
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: Oh? So you are up for a draw! Just Peru then...

We can pressure Peru a bit and finish this up!
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: Sure. The game isn't going anywhere anyway.
02 Feb 17 UTC Spring, 2014: I'm....very confused.
Everything south of the US proper seems ill-advised. Florida looks like they need reinforcements, Peru could easily have broken through Florida's defense, but just decided not to? Mexico, as I said, is being threatened by Peru, but isn't sending any extra units to defend?
02 Feb 17 UTC California........ think about the game from my perspective down here, and what has happened over the map in the last few turns, then you will understand why it has/is not in my interests to attack florida/mexico-even if i had the opportunity-unless they attack me.......
02 Feb 17 UTC I'm confused too, now that we know Mexico voted draw, are we still going to attack him or not?
02 Feb 17 UTC Peru, if you don't want to attack your neighbors, and everyone else has agreed to a draw, what do you expect to happen?
If you want something interesting to happen at this point, you have to make it happen yourself. Otherwise, agree to the draw already.
02 Feb 17 UTC Peru was attacking me several rounds but I blocked him
02 Feb 17 UTC ok I just realized I missed some move that heartland suggested, but it was 2am and I was sleeping. sorry heartland
03 Feb 17 UTC np, forgiven. Just redirect those fleets toward Peru, plz. I've had the same number of units since 2008 (plus or minus one); I'm ready for this game to be over.
03 Feb 17 UTC Same to you, Mexico. I won't attack, so please put pressure on Peru.
03 Feb 17 UTC ........all you guys are wanting to quit out on this just because it has become a war of attrition?????

+why on earth do i want to attack 2 neighbouring countries that are working (well i might add) for me-to attack the most powerful player in the game, splitting up the service centres equally between them (so neither becomes too powerful) and buys me the time to backbuild,, strengthen, and organise- which was exactly what i needed at the time.........

It was a gift from god..........i coudnt have wished for better.

I'd attack when im ready/ provoked, but as i said before, if everyoe else wants out, im not going to be difficult.......

Dissapointing, as i think it is against the spirit if the game, but draw vote is up here too now.......
03 Feb 17 UTC Gg all
03 Feb 17 UTC With Heartlands pulling off me, I think that even if it had continued, Mexico+Florida vs Heartlands+California would have stalled out, hence the draw. No one felt like they'd make progress, so it was perfectly reasonable to draw here.
03 Feb 17 UTC Good Game, anyway. I wish BC would have worked with me, but I suppose my early assault on them might have caused some enmity.
03 Feb 17 UTC GG all. I'm just happy to be alive.
03 Feb 17 UTC GG. Let's hope for less NMR next time :)
03 Feb 17 UTC Cali, thats making the incorrect assumption i wiuld never attack anyone.......

Once i had started to move on either florida or mexico (probably florida) in the next few turns, either i wiuld have lost sc's or gained them. Either way that would have influenced mexico and heartlands positions drastically.

Its just a pity we never actually got to the stage to explore that option........
03 Feb 17 UTC That asside though, i join the standpoint of good game.........
03 Feb 17 UTC "Its just a pity we never actually got to the stage to explore that option."

This game had already lasted 30 rounds! That kind of thinking is why you're not yet Pfc Bean :p

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

mcafeen (113 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 8 D
19 supply-centers, 19 units
NeptuneRiver (108 D)
Drawn. Bet: 0 D, won: 8 D
12 supply-centers, 12 units
Cilohoclan (100 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 8 D
11 supply-centers, 11 units
Balduran (119 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 8 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
Private Bean (155 D)
Drawn. Bet: 0 D, won: 8 D
7 supply-centers, 7 units
Nikov (410 D)
Drawn. Bet: 0 D, won: 8 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
mikpity (5 D X)
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
mezzolitro (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
hajra_vac (358 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Civil Disorders
mezzolitro (100 D)Quebec (Autumn, 2004) with 2 centres.
ShiningIdeal (100 D)Florida (Spring, 2004) with 7 centres.
michaelwallace (100 D)Peru (Autumn, 2005) with 6 centres.
Chandler92 (100 D)Quebec (Autumn, 2003) with 3 centres.
Gabe Bloxom (100 D)Cuba (Autumn, 2002) with 4 centres.
zenek (100 D)Texas (Autumn, 1999) with 3 centres.
CLW3 (100 D)New-York (Autumn, 2003) with 4 centres.
CAMoman (100 D)Cuba (Autumn, 1999) with 3 centres.
mangostork (100 D)Texas (Autumn, 2000) with 3 centres.
Nathanp8 (100 D)Cuba (Autumn, 2003) with 4 centres.
Frozzo (100 D)New-York (Spring, 2004) with 4 centres.
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