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Finished: 03 PM Mon 18 Jul 16 UTC
Modern Diplomacy II- LARGE POT
1 day /phase
Pot: 500 D - Spring, 2004, Finished
Modern Diplomacy II, Sum-of-Squares Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
19 Jun 16 UTC Spring, 1997: Except for the fact that the Turkey player hates soloing, and prefers playing for a 3-way draw....
20 Jun 16 UTC Spring, 1997: I disagree Egypt..Russia has broken the east with unnecessary and fruitless war. By the time we recover form that Germany/Eng will realise that they can spilt to pot.maybe with Italy/Egypt/Turkey as the3rd to stabalise the alliance.

Hey E/G I could be the third lol..

Hats off to Poland who somehow convinced Russia to lose ??
20 Jun 16 UTC Spring, 1997: Ukraine- I am not blaming anyone and you might be right about England and Germany making peace and ending out the victor... but based on what I have seen its Turkey. I can't stop them (you could have helped but bet in different directions). So Turkey will end up with most (if not all) of my remaining SC and as far as I can tell no one on this board knows how to cooperate with anyone.

So when cooperation is impossible victor goes to the best tactician.
20 Jun 16 UTC Spring, 1997: It's interesting to see how different people analyze the same information and come to wildly divergent conclusions. Good game so far everyone.
20 Jun 16 UTC Spring, 1997: Yeah that is interesting and one of the things I love about the game. In my defense I certainly am not motivated by wishful thinking.

Though really the German British alliance would mop the floor with Turkey IF it existed. Turkey has 9 SC you have more than that yourself but with Britiain the two of you would nearly double his forces. It would be easy.

What I think is really interesting about Diplomacy and the only reason I actually play it is the strange human parts which make some people life long allies, some people stab, some scared to committ (Italy and Russia!) and others lone wolves. The strategy of the board is much simpler than chess (the eternal game) but the human aspect of it is where Diplomacy shines.
20 Jun 16 UTC Spring, 1997: god deep stuff really interesting... yeah haha if Germany were bestes then how exactly would we use our units at all to influence turkey I could set sail from SoG but it would take me a bit of time to get there
20 Jun 16 UTC Spring, 1997: Go to the Reddit Diplomacy page for more conversations like this
20 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: Go to the Reddit Diplomacy page for more conversations like this
20 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: scared to commit ?! me! what a joke. I'm a very good partner when my ally communicate which wasn't the case of Ukraine who screwed up my trust in him.
Then I got stabbed by Germany and then Poland - who could go over the fact I stole Bielo the first year.
That's the human factor, and the case of who your neighbor is. I probably lost that game, for lack of communication of Ukraine; and a wrong judgement of what that meant.
Shit happen. I bet on England finishing with the bigger part of the pot.
20 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: Though I do admit it does physically hurt to be right so often in one game.

To answer Britain's excellent question: "if Germany were bestes then how exactly would we use our units at all to influence turkey"

The short answer is you would use diplomacy.

If you and Germany were allied you would be a superpower. You are of course correct right now your armies and navies can't do anything. But superpowers rarely use their armies directly. Instead super powers use their influence, speak softly while carrying a big stick.

For example if both you and Germany sent polite but direct messages which said "attack Turkey or we will attack you" (say it much more diplomatically than that) then Italy would act and Turkey would not walk into victory. But that is just one example and it would require you and Germany to not be fighting over a square that should obviously belong to Britain and is not needed by Germany.

Another example is if I wanted to help France (who could help me influence Italy) but France is fighting Spain (which is a horrible early game plan). I could send a message to Britain saying "Spain offered me Morocco but I have my hands full. Just a heads up" This would make it much more likely that Britain would attack Spain and thus France could (but didn't) influence Italy (who has been friendly but fighting in two directions).

There is a lot more to this game than just moving the pieces. That is why (despite my early prediction) Turkey can still lose. Turkey moves their pieces better than anyone I have ever seen... but they don't influence anyone. I don't know if they are distracted for personal reasons, don't speak much English... or are talking to everyone but me. But words are a more powerful weapon than tactics in this game.
21 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: Egypt with your incredible prescience could you tell me the lottery numbers please..
21 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: I didn't know I was taking AP Lit again
21 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: AP lit ??
21 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: Advanced Placement English Literature: a high school class that involves analysis of literally everything
21 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: Ohhhh Australian version was simply English Lit..way back in my days..

easy for me as Im that old I lived in those times lol.
21 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: Yeah sorry Egypt, I've been caught up with exams the past few weeks, and my communication has been minimal across all games. That, and you're a very complex player, you always have a lot going on, and that makes you hard to read. You're intelligent, and you know how to manipulate a board, and that makes you powerful (if people realise your vision and listen to you). Something I learnt early on when playing Diplomacy (due to my very trusting nature) is that you work out who has true intentions, and who has plans hidden beneath their facade, then you ally with the former, they are always much easier to work with. It's why I've been so hesitant to work with a player such as yourself, but I do respect you.
21 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: Hey Turkey I think you are the player on the board who gets it the best! Too bad we had to fight this time. I hope we can play again and then maybe the circumstances will allow cooperation.

But either way go the the Diplomacy subreddit and contribute: you are a phenomenal player!

21 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: Also if have been doing this well "left handed" so to speak and are now playing "right handed" the rest of the board is totally screwed. Ha ha you speaking publicly rather than in the private chat might have been a huge mistake!
21 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: I still bet on Britain: see that convoy?
21 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: I haven't been playing super close attention to the tactics in the Atlantic (though I have been paying some attention).

Turkey's tactical moves have been pretty flawless and so I still lean towards. Turkey plus between me and Ukraine (and Russia) Turkey has more easy SCs left then England
22 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1997: Yeah, but better to be open about everything that's going on, rather than talking in the shadows with players individually. Public chat shows I don't have much to hide.

And perhaps I will contribute to the sub-reddit Egypt. Maybe :)
24 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1998: Wow brexit
24 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1998: i know right.... fuck you guys i'm leaving you all
24 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1998: Well said
25 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1998: As an economist, I'm still reeling at the impact of Brexit....
25 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1998: Alright everyone, good luck.

Make sure at the end of the game someone tells me if my call for Turkey winning the game ended up correct.
25 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1998: It won't turkey is toast
25 Jun 16 UTC Autumn, 1998: I dunno, Turkey has one strong neighbor (Italy) and three weak neighbors (Ukraine, Russia and Poland)

The other major powers have a much more difficult position

Italy has three strong neighbors (Germany, Britain and Turkey) and only two weak neighbor (Poland and Ukraine).

Germany has two strong neighbors (Britain and Italy) and only one weak neighbor (Poland)

Britain (who will probably the other end game country) has two strong neighbors but only one weak neighbor (Russia).

So everyone that can will try to grab SCs from weak neighbors while not fighting strong neighbors (at least in any substantial way). Turkey will grow the most since they have the most opportunities (weak neighbors) and the least restrictions (strong neighbors). Pretty soon Britain will start to push into Mediterranean SCs which means Italy is sort of screwed (even with German peace but I don't think Germany will stay friendly with Italy).

The only way I can see Turkey failing is if they started making dumb moves (unlikely) or if someone how a real alliance showed up. But up to this point the only player who have displayed the ability to cooperate at all is Ukraine... who is paying the price for cooperating without getting anything in return.
05 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2000: Germany is on a tear!

And I am surprised Ukraine decided to finally attack Turkey
05 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2000: Italy still thinks Germany plans on sharing lol.
05 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2000: Egypt thought Turkey was going to win and wrote us his dissertation on the subject lol
05 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2000: I am long winded though most of that was propaganda to revenge myself against Turkey. But predictions in Diplomacy are like predictions in chess, or plans in war. They aren't meant to survive longer than a turn.

But the part that was true (and is proving true) is that only an alliance of super powers could stop Turkey... though I didn't predict Germany and Italy being the alliance.
05 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2000: If Ukraine is right and Germany does swing south then I'll be proved right about Turkey. But probably Germany is very happy with the stalemate between Turkey and Italy.
06 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2000: "Predictions... aren't meant to survive longer than a turn" ?? Are you kidding? That's laughably nonsensical. But go on Egypt, keep talking.
06 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2000: I predict im in deep doo doo..

hopefully I will last longer than one turn though..

06 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2000: PS Im willing to prostitute myself out to any super power who wants a slut slap back stabber assistant..
06 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2000: Oh now you are willing to work with people. lol Where were you when I was still around?
06 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2000: I was always working with people ..just the wrong ones lol..now I understand the way the world works I'm a little dagger for hire..
06 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2000: Ps I will not say if people have already contacted me ..
07 Jul 16 UTC Spring, 2001: Yes I agree ..why I have to say it on public I don't know but yes I agree.
12 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Draw after next round when Russia and Ukraine get eliminated?
12 Jul 16 UTC Autumn, 2002: Yes please
16 Jul 16 UTC My draw vote is cast, good game everybody!
16 Jul 16 UTC Draw vote cast. Good game all!
17 Jul 16 UTC Thanks for the game guys :)
17 Jul 16 UTC I'm ordering a bunch of support holds in case the draw doesn't get declared in time
17 Jul 16 UTC Great game everybody, really enjoyed it
18 Jul 16 UTC It was educational.

Good talking Turkey.
20 Jul 16 UTC Sorry for dropping out of contact the last few weeks Egypt, I was away with minimal access to internet.

I did enjoy our lengthy chats though :)
20 Jul 16 UTC See you around. :-)

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

TieDomi (408 D)
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 225 D
23 supply-centers, 23 units
desdemona22 (296 D)
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 188 D
21 supply-centers, 21 units
Ar Jack (1630 D)
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 62 D
12 supply-centers, 12 units
C-Rad (768 D)
Drawn. Bet: 50 D, won: 28 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
0k0k0 (4755 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
nickste89 (1816 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
ezk3626 (351 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Smokey Gem (154 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Ibrahim (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 50 D
Jnsnmnhn (100 D)
Defeated. Bet: 0 D
Civil Disorders
Smokey Gem (154 D)Ukraine (Autumn, 2003) with 0 centres.
Dnerd (100 D)Spain (Spring, 1996) with 2 centres.
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