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Finished: 09 AM Fri 04 Dec 15 UTC
Breakdown of Realpolitik
1 day /phase
Pot: 77 D - Autumn, 1912, Finished
Classic, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by ssorenn (0 D X)
18 Nov 15 UTC Spring, 1906: Also this game is great with situations, anything can happen. In another game Im playing England sent all of its ships into the mediterranean sea... and invaded Turkey for some reason lmao
18 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: gg
have fun with the rest of the game
18 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: GG Germany.
18 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: Live gunboat starting in 10 mins for anyone who's interested
18 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: i'm at school :(
18 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1906: I had a half day, Im out now though
20 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1907: sorry for the miss guys. weekend effect
27 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: Gg Russia
27 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1909: RIP
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: The Italians are having a hissy because I won't draw and think it's messed up that I try for solo. They also think the French helping my cause is a good thing for the game. To bad he doesn't understand the intricacies of diplomacy. To all that are involved, I'll draw if I see fit. If I an get solo and the French get a survive. Good for me and him
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Several corrections:

1) "They also think the French helping my cause is a good thing for the game". I never said that.
2) "If I an get solo and the French get a survive. Good for me and him" What use is a survive in a WTA? You're really just abusing the fact that France is a novice.
3) How does name-calling and talking about the "intricacies of diplomacy" go together in your world, mate?
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Let me be very clear: My issue is not with the possibility of my defeat, or your win. I have an issue with experienced players like you promoting this behavior to new players.

You know, the behavior where you offer a meaningless survival and in exchange they help you win. This is what's messed up. We already have a bunch of this in PPSC, it's hateful there too, but I've never seen it in WTA. Have you no regard for the quality of the games you play? I'm simply saying there is no honor in winning like this.

And as I indicated in our personal chat, I'm well aware that honor in diplomacy is at best secondary, but the long-term goal is to have fun games. Following (and promoting) this behavior is one of the biggest problems here, I believe.
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: As I am eliminated I have the easiest say here I believe. France has no hope of winning if England chooses to eliminate him, his only hope of even staying alive and playing is to help England (who has him surrounded). That being said, it is 16v18 SCs but England is close to the remaining 2 he needs. It is completely fair that England tries for a solo, and France has already voted for a draw.
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: I made the choice (Before being screwed over by Austria) to follow Austria's instructions, as I wanted to survive for a little bit more and Austria could basically do whatever they wanted with me, so I followed them. I dont think England is abusing a new player, the person playing France knows they have no shot at winning and is doing their best to not die as soon as they possibly can
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: If I work against England, I would be eliminated. There is no way Im included in the draw. Therefore I work with England who can get multiple SCs and then I have a chance at survival rather than an elimination.

Also Italy, Austria wanted to squeeze you out of the draw earlier as well. England performed a great stab on me that I couldn't defend against because in this game because I was forced to rely on him due to my NMR in spring 1901. This alienated a couple of my neighbours and left me with no sc gains for the first year. I told Austria that if he sstabbed me he would give England the solo since there would be no buffer against British growth...looks like I was right.
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: I do appreciate both the French and Russian for their thoughts here. In my estimation, no matter if I solo or there is a draw, all involved will be better suited to play higher caliber players on this site. I have had little interaction with the Turk so I'm not sure there. I'm a chess player, and some the most intuitive chess I played was against people who killed me over and over again....that how I got better. I hope France and Germany and Russia learned a great deal here and can use that knowledge in their next games. For Italy to try t shame me from trying for the win is beyond ridiculous and spiteful.
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Agreed, playing against the best makes you better (also a chess player)

Playing against people who baby you make you think its easy, whereas people who challenge you (Like my dad) make you work harder and learn from their plays. England is in the right here, going for the solo until they realize its a draw
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: You certainly weren't right, France. Turkey gave this game away, although England's extremely skillfull playmade that possible. You were kind of irrelevant. I'm telling you this so that you know for the future that you weren't necessary for the stalemate line. You can check up a list of stalemated lines on the Internet, so that you can see what is and isn't necessary for a draw.
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Chill, England. I thought this game was about the intricacies of diplomacy. Guilting you into drawing would've been pretty intricate IMO. It has worked before :)

GG guys, I played my final card. Didn't mean to take it to the global chat but well. See you on the other side.
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Welp, that's it guys. If I had cut West Med, we would've had a draw. Bad guess by me
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Congrats England
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: He didn't win yet. Though I might just have sacrificed my own life in the process of stopping him.
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: I may consider draw if you kill off the Italian
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Why? You don't need to lie anymore. I can't guess Munich/Berlin right forever.
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: or warsaw
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: lol
30 Nov 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: will you actually believe him? :D
02 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: Hahaha
02 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: So, will you draw now
02 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: lol.
02 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: that would be hilarious
02 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: Yeah....no. I really can't believe you did that. Kinda mean, don't you think? :)) kinda funny too :))
02 Dec 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: It is the holiday season
02 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1912: Even a. 001 percent chance of a draw is better than no chance of a draw.
02 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1912: after the Italian was such a dick, there's no love loss there. But the solo is at hand, and i don't believe you can stop it. If i had not gotten Prussia last turn i may have drawn, but now it is what it is, sorry. I do respect your play Austria, and everyone else's as well
02 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1912: I don't blame you at all. Looking forward to playing with you more in the future
02 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1912: always enjoy playing with you Marz
02 Dec 15 UTC Spring, 1912: Just going to put in one move and ready my orders. Please don't take anything besides Munich for aesthetic purposes
02 Dec 15 UTC Only Munich
02 Dec 15 UTC Readying everything again
02 Dec 15 UTC GG all. Enjoyed playing with everyone
02 Dec 15 UTC Ditto
02 Dec 15 UTC Thx
02 Dec 15 UTC GG :)
02 Dec 15 UTC Just for the record, I wasn't a dick, but as Austria said, even a 0.001% chance for a draw is better. Guilting you was my only option. I obviously don't care if it pisses you off, but the truth is much more complex than just me being a "dick".
02 Dec 15 UTC Feed yourself all the bullshit you want. I don't care.
02 Dec 15 UTC Jesus man, what's wrong with you?
02 Dec 15 UTC People like you
02 Dec 15 UTC Something tells me you have other problems in your life and this is just a manifestation of that. Good luck with those.
02 Dec 15 UTC My man, I'm all good. Certainly in a better place than you will ever be. I mince no words. I call a spade a spade and have no issues doing so. Ask Marz, he will tell you.

I don't like what you did, and that's that. I also have no problems EVER not playing with you again

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

England
ssorenn (0 D X)
Won. Bet: 10 D, won: 77 D
18 supply-centers, 17 units
Austria
Marz (515 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D
9 supply-centers, 12 units
Turkey
ARNESEN (372 D)
Survived. Bet: 10 D
7 supply-centers, 5 units
Italy
boylee (2062 D)
Defeated. Bet: 7 D
France
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Germany
Orikami (177 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Russia
Lord JTAL (125 D)
Defeated. Bet: 10 D
Civil Disorders
Zerus (100 D)Italy (Spring, 1902) with 5 centres.
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