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Finished: 05 PM Fri 09 Oct 15 UTC
Let-2
1 day /phase
Pot: 280 D - Spring, 1912, Finished
Classic, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
30 Sep 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Game over. Well done Germany.
30 Sep 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Yup. Game set and match. Good play Germany.

Let's ready these moves quickly and get this game closed out please.
01 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Sorry guys I was blind to what was happening
01 Oct 15 UTC Spring, 1909: Germany, can you ready up so we can end this?
01 Oct 15 UTC Spring, 1909: I was born ready.
04 Oct 15 UTC Spring, 1910: Bad time to NMR for Germany. Looks like it will be a draw.
04 Oct 15 UTC Spring, 1910: Wow, that is just an inexcusable NMR.
04 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Well, to be fair, France missed the move where he should have moved into MAO and forced a draw, so it's kind of poetic in a way.
04 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: I suppose that's true, but he was beaten, not on the verge of a solo.
04 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: I guess that is the human aspect of diplomacy. If you have to eat during a FtF game, you are also missing opportunities.
04 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Eating is for the weak-willed. One should have only an appetite for sweet victory.
04 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: The blood of the foe is nectar from the Gods of War! Cthulu ftaghn!
04 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Then the comparison stands. NMR on the internet is equal to eating during a FtF game.
04 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Shall we ready up?
05 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Uh, Germany it's time to draw.
05 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: ?
05 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Germany, the solo is off the table. None of us will risk attacking the other and letting you solo thereby.
05 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Please vote Draw.
05 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: May I encourage Italy to not build? We do not need any more units and it would show Germany that none of are going to attack.
05 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Well, looks like this could take a while since Germany is logging in but ignoring/not responding to global press.
05 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: I have a family/ travel emergency for the last four days. I am trying to monitor/keep up with the game as best I can, and am doing my best to respond to substantive message,, but not really interested in issuing or responding to press releases. I ddont think I've read all the global press but it's hard to tell on my phone
05 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Hope all is well...
05 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Hope all is well.
06 Oct 15 UTC Spring, 1911: Germany, can you vote for the draw please? We are done.
06 Oct 15 UTC Spring, 1911: Germany, can you vote for the draw please? We are done.
06 Oct 15 UTC Spring, 1911: Uh oh Russia. That fleet in Berlin can only be headed to one place...
06 Oct 15 UTC Spring, 1911: :'(
06 Oct 15 UTC Spring, 1911: Your only hope is that Germany decides to draw this game before 1912 when he moves into Finland! Start lobbying for a draw!
06 Oct 15 UTC Spring, 1911: Foolish Russian, you should have called Sardinia before me! Too late now. I am sunning myself on the Mediterranean beaches even as we type.
06 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: All right. Nobody is stabbing each other. Germany, it's time to draw. I get the frustration of being so close to the solo, but it's done.
07 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: Germany, there is no way to improve your result anymore,
07 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: For real, what is going on?
07 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: We're wasting everyone's time here.
07 Oct 15 UTC Autumn, 1911: Germany (and Italy and Turkey), I will suicide to Germany if I am attacked by Italy or Turkey. With this in mind, I feel comfortable saying that there is ZERO chance I will be attacked. It's a 4-way draw.
07 Oct 15 UTC Still not building. Let's draw.
07 Oct 15 UTC Germany is not entering move orders and not voting Draw.
08 Oct 15 UTC Relax, Austria. We're competent enough to not screw up the game. Is there some rule for deadlock games on this site?
08 Oct 15 UTC Turkey, fair point. I just got worried with Germany's refusal to accept the draw that something was coming. Not so anymore.
08 Oct 15 UTC We can contact a mod and ask them to check the game and confirm the draw, but that seems very drastic.
08 Oct 15 UTC I find this all very odd. The guy playing Germany is obviously a solid player looking at his record. One of us must have done something to anger him, no other reason for him to be acting like this and not communicating as well.
08 Oct 15 UTC Sorry to go radio silent guys. I really did have a travel/personal emergency over the weekend (should probably have asked for the pause, but I thought I would be able to get my orders in. Just so you guys know I'm not crazy, I really do think there was play left in this game and that Austria was expendable in the draw. Based on private correspondence with Italy, I felt there was about a 20% chance I would convince him to go for the stab up until last turn (even after waiving builds once, he still seemed convince-able to me based on his messages). I don't actually care very much about rating, and (unlike the Turkish and Italian players), I kind of like Austria who was a good, if nervous, ally to me for most of the game. But, I think it is rare that a situation comes along where it is possible to winnow down the draw, but doing so requires arranging it very carefully, and I think it is an interesting challenge to do so (if nothing else, it is good practice for tournaments with draw-based scoring systems). I thought it would have been fun to try in this game and I think it was possible, certainly with a cooperative Turkey, but even without one. With that said, I am now persuaded that I won't convince Italy to give it a shot, so I've voted the draw.
08 Oct 15 UTC As for the rest of the game, wanted to say thank you to you guys for a pretty high-quality game. I felt all the players in the game were pretty solid and I really appreciated that there were no dropouts, hardly any NMR, and that each player was an active and willing correspondent on almost every turn. I've played a lot of bad games on Webdiplomacy and this was emphatically not one of them. Obviously I am not particularly satisfied with the outcome, but I am actually more frustrated with my mistake in Spring 1909 to not order Spa S Bur-Mar (which would have bounced Italy out of Marseille and given me a forced solo in Fall 1909) than I am with my own NMR, which while it cemented that I would not solo, came at a point when there was a pretty good chance you guys would successfully force the draw anyway, as my position in Spain was heavily in peril and there was no way to take Paris without risking loss of Spain after my Spring mistake. In any case, thanks again for the game. I'd be interested to hear other players thoughts on how the game played out from their perspective.
08 Oct 15 UTC I'm just happy I was able to survive to the draw. Germany, I thought you stabbed me a little early, but I can understand the draw to weaken your nearest rival and go for the solo. And you did have a great chance at the solo, so it's wrong to say that stabbing me was a bad idea period. I definitely screwed up by building the fleet and turning Italy against me as early on as I did. All in all, I'm happy I was able to scrape by and that neither Italy or Turkey decided to risk you soloing and try to eliminate me from the draw.

As a point of advice regarding trying to knock me out -- The danger was too real that by attacking me, they'd leave a vacuum for you to take the solo, but if you had earnestly wanted the 3-way draw I think you could have surrendered an SC to Italy and/or Turkey as a sign of good faith. It would have taken you to 15/14 SCs and made it all but guaranteed that even if I suicide to you in spite that you would not be able to hit 18.
08 Oct 15 UTC Overall, I was very happy with the play and the level of communication I got in this game, especially considering I stabbed Russia, stabbed Turkey, was going to stab Italy, and was stabbed by Germany.
08 Oct 15 UTC Gg all
08 Oct 15 UTC Had a lot of fun this time around, all. It has been about a year and a half since I've played Dip, and to be honest I was a bit disheartened when I drew Italy (statistically least likely to win, etc.). But it ended up being quite an enjoyable game.

On the Eastern politics, there were many times I thought hard about moving against Austria sooner than I did. At least once I had moves entered against him, but changed them last minute- my concern obviously that once Austria was gone, I would be Turkey's next target. Far easier, I thought, to take out Turkey and then Austria still had a natural way to expand that didn't involve me.

Thanks all for a great game.
08 Oct 15 UTC My only regret was flaming out early. I was a non-factor.
08 Oct 15 UTC Regarding Austria's comments:
1. I agree I may have stabbed too early. In fact, I never really wanted to stab Austria and would not have done so had I been able to take Warsaw and Moscow when I stabbed Russia (which would have happened, if Austria had not beaten me to the punch and scooped Warsaw back in 1902). With that said, once we got into a big war in the east, I didn't really have the army power to fight Austria, Turkey, and France all at once. I think it would have been difficult to take and hold anything south of Moscow. I therefore felt it would work best to grab Ukraine and Moscow as quickly as possible, because once I had that position I was impregnable in the east with relatively little force.
2. At the end, there was no safe way to give a center to Italy. What I wanted to do was give Moscow (and eventually Warsaw) to Turkey, which would have left me safe in the east (with the fleet I built, I could have safely withdrawn all the way to Munich-Berlin and Stp by ordering Bal S Ber). I probably should have just left Moscow empty just to try to get Turkey off the fence. But, given the personalities involved, I rated my chance of getting Turkey to do anything to be virtually nil. I instead thought that my only chance to knock out Austria was to get Italy to stab, at which point Turkey would have been forced to pile on in order to eliminate Austria as quickly as possible so he couldn't throw the game. That was a trickier tactical dance - I offered to withdraw from Bohemia to give Italy some more breathing room, but of course if I had done that Austria would have been able to safely order Bud S Vie.
08 Oct 15 UTC I guess what I'm trying to say above in point 1 is, had I waited to stab Austria and stabbed France first, I think what would have happened is that a TA alliance versus Germany would have happened anyway without me stabbing Austria, because Turkey was very sensitive to the German solo threat. When that happened, I would have been in a much worse tactical position than I was able to achieve by stabbing, and would likely not have been able to hold Warsaw (which would have meant I needed to reach Tunis to solo, which wasn't happening).
08 Oct 15 UTC I agree with most of what you said, but I don't agree that a TA alliance would have arisen. Turkey was pretty stoutly against helping me without me ceding SCs to him, which I flatly refused to do.
All my comments should not be taken as criticism in any way. Germany came very close to a solo even with what I considered to be an early stab against me. A later stab against me would not have been feasible -- I think the Anschluss could have stayed the course and made for a 2-way draw.

That being said, I know myself, and I would have inevitably stabbed you for the solo if given the chance near the end game :)

Good game everyone. And clearly well thought out plans by all.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Germany
CNote (555 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 70 D
16 supply-centers, 16 units
Italy
mrak5 (171 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 70 D
9 supply-centers, 7 units
Turkey
Lukan (387 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 70 D
5 supply-centers, 5 units
Austria
michfarr (562 D)
Drawn. Bet: 40 D, won: 70 D
4 supply-centers, 4 units
Russia
Defeated. Bet: 40 D
England
Lord Bolton (583 D)
Defeated. Bet: 40 D
France
Bigboybomb (67 D X)
Defeated. Bet: 40 D
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