Finished: 06 AM Thu 30 Jul 15 UTC
Private League A1: Winter 2015 - Game 3
1 day, 1 hours /phase
Pot: 42 D - Spring, 1915, Finished
Classic, Draw-Size Scoring, Wait for orders
1 excused missed turn
Game drawn
11 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I feel I was victimised as I was waiting for press too, and would have done other stuff... Jus' sayin'
Also, i want to point, to gold, that France has indicated he would support a draw IF the other game (2) was drawn, but instead we fought on as our right (I.e. I didn't just make a three way draw), and because of that he is more against a draw here. Right is right separate of whether or not you haven't yet obtained a result you wanted. To even mention the other game shows concern only with league position instead of a fair outcome
11 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: If this was a stand alone game, I would be more inclined, but this is part of a now 4 month investment that is soured by the (in)action of one player. It would be clear everyone has their argument of unfairness, which is why I present how I'm seeing this.
11 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: *rather than is soured, is asked to be soured...
11 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Well we shall see what Gold says.
11 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Truly unfortunate situation that is hard to resolve so sympathy for gold and everyone else
11 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Yes, I agree that this is unfair for TheReinvented, too. And to Soc, as well.

We all have invested a lot of time and effort to play this series as best we can, and it's a shame that this just happened.

And, despite my earlier rants of frustration, I do appreciate that Goldfinger has taken a lot of his own personal time to run this league for our enjoyment and challenge. Thank you, Gold. I was frustrated by the lack of consistency with WFO, but I don't want to sound unappreciative of your efforts.
11 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I think we should pause whilst decisions are made
11 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I agree, and want to say, I didn't mean any type of ultimatum over game 2 in regards to this one, that was just an example of why this increases my frustration of the situation.
11 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I was a bit strong with my words, and I really do see your point. I think perhaps we should just advance reinvented chluke and myself to the next round ;)
11 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: It sucks that Russia couldn't get his moves in. But there is no way to roll back the game given the turn already processed. I would got to simply proceed - what honestly was different that Russia didn't put in moves? I covered his unit at BUD and nothing changed hands that shouldn't have. Why not just move on?
11 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: could pause whilst we reach consensus though....
12 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Again all I am sorry that I soured the game. I agree that WFO should consistently be used or consistently not be used and it is actually my preference for the latter. By following the latter those that put in effort are rewarded. A similar situation happened in game 1 of B3 where I had entered moves thinking that the game would process but it went into WFO instead. I asked Gold a question and before I got an answer (and a chance to change my moves) the game processed. That situation was a bit different but I pressed on and made the best of it. I personally don't see how the game can be cancelled based on there not being a precedent for it. I can also see both sides of the issue from claiming a 5-way to pressing on. Personally, I don't see anything to do other than to press on. I've earned my first strike and fully expect to be removed from the league if it happens again. As such I will make more of an effort to get moves in on time even if they are just temporally moves. But on that note if I (or anyone else) enters temporally moves with out putting much thought or press into them, how is that much different than what I did. I think the issue really is with the inconsistent WFO. Maybe we can all agree that WFO will not be used anymore in games 2, 3, and 4 or that games 2, 3, and 4 will always have WFO on for the remainder of the series. Perhaps it could be a trial to see so how badly WFO is abused. Just thinking out load here.
12 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: And just FYI we are basically at a draw condition now anyway, so not sure what all the outrage is about.
12 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Well to expand on France's point... it is clearly in both Germany's and Turkey's best interest (as far as league standings go) to draw this game. I believe doing so would ensure both get a promotion.
12 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Mscott regardless of your opinion could you not vote draw whilst we discuss? It doesn't hurt...
12 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I think you mean vote for a pause while we discuss?
12 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: My personal opinion is that WFO should be used for all league games going forward, but that missing the standard time deadline is still counted as a strike against a player. Then, the tournament Director removes a player from the league after x number of strikes.

Using WFO is no different than one of us scrambling to send out an email to ask the mods to urgently pause the game, except that it is inherently 100% reliable to protect the integrity of the game, while emailing mods hasn't always worked. And the reason I didn't email the mods last night as I usually do, is because I assumed we were in WFO mode.
12 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I'm removing my earlier "frustrated" cancel vote. I realize that is not a realistic or fair option.
12 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Cool, pause is in. Does gold know we wanted his opinion? I figured he knew what was going on since he turned WFO in game 4
15 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: (goldfinger0303): Hi all, I was just doing my normal check of all the paused games and saw you were waiting for my ruling. My apologies, I was unaware. I had discussed this a bit with chluke via PM, and thought the matter was settled here.

So, let me explain my rationality for inconsistently putting in WFO. First, why its just not on permanently in every game for the whole tournament. That would be best, right? Well those of you who were in the last Masters tournament experienced what a WFO tournament is like - long, drawn out, and with repeated and frequent abuse of the feature. I had to email and harass tons of people, kick a bunch more out, and there were tons of subs needed and the quality of play declined significantly. Most people's impression of WFO was negative, in practice (not in theory).

The other problem is that there is no log of when WFO is activated. So lets say Russia were to miss a phase by an hour. If I wasn't online during that hour and personally saw it happen, there would be no way of me knowing unless it was brought to my attention. And sorry, but I will not rely on tournament participants for making those calls. As it is, this whole conversation of drawing or canceling is skewed by people trying to pursue tournament goals (perfectly as it should be, well done!) so I want to have players involved the least amount as possible in decisions that may make winning easier for them.

But, as TD I do want a tournament with as few NMR's as possible. Ideally, every game would be a perfect one, which is why I also implemented RR restrictions for this tournament and personally vetted those who didn't meet it (and have had almost zero problems with them). So I will WFO when it looks as though there is an impending NMR. In practice, I check all the games several times a day, though there are some days when I'm not as vigilant. If a game has less than 6 hours on it and some people haven't entered orders, I WFO it. Then on the next check through of games I take off all the WFO whose phases have processed.

So I apologize for missing this, as all the other NMR's I have missed. I am still trying to find out the best way to TD, and am always open to feedback. I'll be making a thread probably this weekend or something asking for feedback from the tournament as a whole, and will welcome any more discussion there. But I will not force draw or cancel or roll back this game for an NMR. I have only rolled back games in 1901 in this tournament (I think...), and I think its fair to restrict it to that.
18 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: (goldfinger0303): So, what are we waiting on here then?
18 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Just Socrates, I believe.
18 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: I need to request a pause (in both games), please, this Friday afternoon through Monday mid-day (US Eastern time).
18 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Well ****. Can we atleast Un pause this game and get the build phase done and then we can pause for the weekend?
18 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Works for me.
19 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: (goldfinger0303): Socrates had time to check the game, but not enough time for the unpause vote, apparently. Lets keep this moving folks
19 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: Apparently so.
19 Jun 15 UTC Autumn, 1908: (goldfinger0303): chluke has requested that both games be paused now, so I won't let the turns go through.
24 Jun 15 UTC Spring, 1909: (goldfinger0303): Socrates Dissatisfied has had an emergency and requests to be withdrawn from the tournament. Please be patient as I call up a sub from the B Leagues
24 Jun 15 UTC Spring, 1909: Gday gents - hopefully we can still make a game of it.
24 Jun 15 UTC Spring, 1909: Goldfinger: can you please clarify/verify what withdrawn means? Do the 7 points (and his name being crossed out) mean he will not be "promoted" regardless of if he is actually in the top three in the standings?
24 Jun 15 UTC Spring, 1909: Guys - I'm sorry but I didn't join this game to not play - so I'm not drawing without giving it a shake
24 Jun 15 UTC Spring, 1909: Are we ready to continue then? And I second Caballo's question for Gold.
25 Jun 15 UTC Spring, 1909: Goldfinger0303: Can we unpause this at your convenience but RESET the time on the phase so that it doesn't catch anyone by surprise?
26 Jun 15 UTC Spring, 1909: Sorry all! I didn't realize I was holding up the unpause. All set now!
01 Jul 15 UTC Spring, 1910: Remind me not to fill in in a league series ever again please - you are all retarded.
02 Jul 15 UTC Spring, 1910: Wusti, no need for offensive language, please.

I do agree that you being attacked and weakened by Russia when France is already across the stalemate line in two spots in the south, and then Russia ill advisedly allocating the bulk of its forces southward, when the France is just a Munich and Berlin away from locking down a solo run, is not a smart move at all.

To be fair though, all the players that "started" in this A league are intimately aware of stalemate lines. Caballo Blanco is a sub that was pulled up from the lower leagues. He is a solid and intuitive player with a strong win record, but he is clearly a newer player who (admittedly) has not learned the stalemate line dynamics yet, that all the other A league players know so well. He thinks he can hold Nor, Swe and StPete in the end, and perhaps has not been in those games where those centers just get slowly taken away step by step in the end game because there are not enough adjacent territories to protect them from.

This is precisely why I did not try to hold on to those centers in vain in game 2, and I instead retreated to secure the stalemate line and stop England from soloing together with The Reinvented. Games histories are riddled with examples of such games that end in solos by taking Scandinavia and then St Pete -- in fact, it's probably the most common solo scenario!

I can vouch from games one and two that TheReinvented, rdrivera, and Socrates Disatisfied all have intimate understandings of the stalemate line dynamics. But Socrates is gone, rdrivera was eliminated earlier in this game, and TheReinvented is using his knowledge to sucker Russia into unkowingly helping him solo this game!

MScott likely understands the stalemate lines too, but he is in a difficult position, squeezed between two big powers with only 4 units, and there is not much he can do.

For my part, I am going to intentionally play terribly now and throw centers to France because I cannot survive all by myself against three countries (France, Italy and Russia). So, since I'm going down, I'm giving the game to France and taking the rest of you down with me. This is why I disband East Med and am leaving Smyrna wide open for France. If I weren't being attacked from every neighbor, I would gladly use my Tyr army to help you defend Munich and Berlin against France, but that's not going to happen now.
02 Jul 15 UTC Spring, 1910: That's what I'm talking about - you all cry about stopping France then fight among yourselves like morons. Only reasonable explanation is Russia thinks he will actually get a negotiated draw from France - but by the time you lot have finished it'll be too late to stop the solo.

:golf clap:
03 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: (goldfinger0303): Paused as per player request. I will unpause on Monday. Happy 4th for those Americans here
06 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: All thanks for the pause, it really helped me focus on the family. Hope everyone else enjoyed their weekend. I'm ready to resume whenever.
06 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: I'll be able to vote unpause tonight
07 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: (goldfinger0303): Just waiting on Turkey.
07 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: Hesitant to unpause because there shows only 4 hours left in phase. I need a full phase of time, please.
08 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1910: I would like the full time as well.
21 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1912: (goldfinger0303): Both games back online now with full phases.
27 Jul 15 UTC Spring, 1914: Did I ever mention how much I hate playing Italy in cutthroat league games?
And how much worse it is than usual when I'm stuck between TheReinvented and chluke for three games out of three?
27 Jul 15 UTC Spring, 1914: well, to be fair, with the design of a diplomacy board, It's probably easy to find two other players you started close to within 4 games
28 Jul 15 UTC Autumn, 1914: Good game, everyone.
28 Jul 15 UTC Good Game, see you in the next league
28 Jul 15 UTC Good game, all.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

TheReinvented (1360 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 14 D
12 supply-centers, 12 units
Caballo Blanco (1005 D)
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 14 D
12 supply-centers, 11 units
chluke (10280 D (G))
Drawn. Bet: 5 D, won: 14 D
10 supply-centers, 10 units
rdrivera2005 (3533 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Wusti (1748 D)
Defeated. Bet: 4 D
acornist (1023 D)
Defeated. Bet: 3 D
mscott (384 D (G))
Defeated. Bet: 5 D
Civil Disorders
Zachattack413 (1231 D)England (Autumn, 1902) with 4 centres.
Socrates Dissatisfied (1727 D)Germany (Spring, 1909) with 6 centres.
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