Finished: 04 PM Wed 12 Aug 09 UTC
Brest-Litovsk
1 day, 12 hours /phase
Pot: 119 D - Autumn, 1913, Finished
Classic, Draw-Size Scoring
1 excused missed turn
Game won by Nazim (493 D)
24 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: i think what happens is that after a pause is unpaused the game resets for that phase and you have to reenter orders.
24 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: I didn't re-enter orders.
25 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: I had about 2 hours left on the clock with all my orders finalized.
25 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: All the moderators will do is show a cryptic dump of array settings which will apparently prove that nothing went wrong. Been there, done that, pawned the souvenir cup.

I had also entered orders before Ghostmaker unpaused it, and did not re-enter my orders afterward.

So, 7 hours left, what do we do? Nazim or Doc, did you post anything in the forum? I would but since I've already been shot down twice about "impossible" errors, I'm tired of trying.
25 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: I would support Doc contacting a mod directly, and showing them screenshots of this discussion.

Doc, scroll to the good parts of this conversation and use the printscreen key to copy the screen. Then paste it into a file (repeat if necessary), and upload it somewhere (imgur.com is easy). Then send that link to the mods, with a nice thorough explanation.

Meanwhile, I say we game on. I'm not going to finalize my orders so as to provide the mods with the time to assess this issue, but, if nothing else, we'll wait and see if the problem happens again.
26 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: So, it seems that a few of you guys keep playing against each other. How did that come about?
26 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: NinjaPirateRobotZombie used all the good character names in one, so I've been playing against him to make him surrender his names.
26 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: That seems fair. NPRZ, do you give up?
26 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: To answer your other question, we're all friends. I brought them to the site and we mostly stick to private games, but if you really want to dig into them you'll see we actually duke it out, so...

Anyway -- yes -- I'll draw.
26 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: Draw vote in.
26 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: I have to say, I don't like the idea of drawing. The records were pulled, but I'm not sure what they indicate.

Do you guys draw everytime there is a mistake on anyone's - or thing's - part? I'm not saying that Germany screwed up, but he hasn't been particularly debilitated by the errors. Depending on what he was trying to achieve, he might even have been assisted. Let's play the game and see what happens. If I am at 17 and a half centers, and this problem clearly and unequivocally comes up again, I'll be glad to draw.
26 Aug 09 UTC Autumn, 1906: ive only drawn 1 game out of all ive played and it was when there was no way i could go against the other 2 voting to draw.
27 Aug 09 UTC Spring, 1907: Like I said, doesn't really matter to me much either way. It isn't like I'm suddenly going to rear up and take the map by storm, and losing that 17-point bet isn't really going to affect me.

We do tend to end games when the site messes up though, which it seems to do fairly often. I understood Kestas' point in his response, but... well, suffice to say that in the problems I posted, they weren't all-holds, they were moves I didn't order -- and I got largely the same response.

*shrug* -- I'll play or quit, makes no real difference given my situation.
02 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: I can hold ION, giving you time to move TUN-TYS, and then take ROM in Autumn. After that you'll have to move quickly as I'll lose a fleet and can't hold ION, but it might be worth the gamble to get another SC. At worst he'll just push you out of ION and next turn you can push right back.
02 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Shit. So much for that. I hate the new site layout. Oh well. :)
02 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: So I guess we all decided against drawing?

It looks like Nazim doubted the missed turn thing in Germany.

Although it's a little odd considering he spoke out in support of it in the forum.

Still, we have three draw votes, and the win-pot isn't going to make much difference for anybody.

Of course, losing won't either with 17-point bets.

Draw? Anybody?
02 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Come to think of it, King Wren, are you just playing a one-man-gunboat game?

No opinion about these semi-mysterious all-hold turns?
02 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: And won't someone please flip Finland already?
02 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Quiet, you. ;)

Seriously, I'd love to see the all-holds thing straightened out, but I see no reason to draw. I'd draw the overall fairness of the game were compromised. Personally, I'd be willing to do so if there were a clear mistake entering orders too. Germany doesn't seem to have been hampered to the point where the overall fairness of the game has been compromised. Just like I don't think Italy's mistaken support for Venice instead of Vienna compromised the game.
02 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: *crickets*
02 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: =D
03 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Okay, now Germany has no orders in, and I remember seeing a checkmark next to his name earlier. Again?
03 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Could we try to pause the game, to possibly allow Kersus the opportunity to look into this again, if he has the patience?
03 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Yes, I definitely remember seeing the checkmark, too. Pause-vote in.
03 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Also, ask Kestas to change the color of Finland.
03 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Ok, now I see a checkmark again. I've taken a screenshot and cancelled my pause.
03 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Exciting game.
03 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: I don't see a checkmark.
04 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: I don't zee czech.
04 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Apparently it's happening in other games to other players. A friend told me a player complained about it a couple times, but nobody believed him. Now they've seen it too.
04 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Which other games or players? Is there a thread?
04 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Not that I know of. I'm in another game with a friend, and he was talking about a completely different one he's in. No idea which. Most of my friends are on the verge of leaving the site over the bugs.
04 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: Maybe that's why Kersus is taking them so seriously. I have to say, I don't know if I would have spent the time he has on our particular issue without more concrete proof.

I've started taking snapshots of the finalized screens, but I'm not sure what shot to take: the current phase at the top, the orders, or the list of countries with the checkmarks. And I don't think a composite of the three would really be effective.

About leaving the site, where would you go? playdiplomacy is completely buggy, and stalls out regularly, leaving no access for days at a time. The old play-by-mail servers are very picky about the orders, have no mapping included (although there is downloadable software that will map the results), and I don't think casual players would really take to that. I know I couldn't install the software on every computer I use.
04 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1908: I was taking screen shots before the site update, but when the whole site changed without announcement or warning, I gave up. I've been slowly winding down my involvement and I'll probably just go to one or two simultaneously (whereas I used to play six or seven at once).

The only reason I stay here is the same one you mention: it's the best option, for the moment anyway...
09 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1909: Finally, the turks dine in Venice!
09 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1909: it means little when you have 2 other countries giving you the victory. pardon me if im a pessimist but it might have been reasonable if it was PPSC but in WTA theres no sense in simply giving up in favor of someone else.

takes the fun and competitive level out of the game. congrats on your "win"
09 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1909: You mean whomever dines in Venice wins? I missed that rule. But thanks for the congratulations, I guess.
09 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1909: Regarding others allegedly giving me the victory, that's an interesting argument coming from someone who was blatantly giving her centers to France.
09 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1909: Uh, homeslice, check the colors, that WAS France. I decided to give my centers to France because I simply don't like talking to you much. Case in point.
09 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1909: Tip of hat: you win.
10 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1909: i have to say, turkey, you played well. i dont mean that bitter or sarcastic. you earned your portion of the win.
10 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1909: You're giving your territory away?
10 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1909: It's a fire sale! Seriously, as long as everyone's having fun, you can say whatever you want. It's only a problem if it's not fun.
11 Sep 09 UTC Autumn, 1909: I can't say it was FUN, but I don't blame anybody but myself. One of the worst openings I've had in... well, maybe ever, lol. And I do agree, Nazim certainly played well.
11 Sep 09 UTC Autumn, 1909: Well, thank you. But if you're not having fun, then why are you playing? Isn't fun what this is about? I mean, I know that you're a pretty well-ranked player, but isn't the fun more important?

About your opening, I thought your attack on Austria was pretty adept. I think it was strange of you not to see France coming for you in when he built a fleet in Marseilles in autumn of 1901, or after he had two fleets in the med in spring of 1902.

Finally, can you give me any specifics on what it was, about my communication, that irritated you so?
11 Sep 09 UTC Autumn, 1909: I'm just not having fun in the sense that I never made any real headway. The France thing was just a bad judgment call. (And I don't blame him, I've stabbed Italy quite a few times myself.) Sometimes you just have to gamble, and I called it wrong. I know statistically Italy is supposed to be just as capable as any other country, but drawing Italy is my personal worst-case scenario (ironically I believe my first win on phpDip was with Italy).

Since you asked, I thought you came across as very pushy. After all, many of your messages were of the form, "Your next moves are x, y, z." Of course, if that was your intent, well done -- I often felt compelled to do something else out of sheer annoyance, heh.

Anyway, good game. Too bad my buddy in Germany suffered so many Magical Mystery Bugs.
11 Sep 09 UTC Autumn, 1909: P.S. We can still draw... :)
12 Sep 09 UTC Autumn, 1909: Thanks for the feedback. I'll certainly note it, and the pushyness was not intentional. For what it's worth, Italy is my worst country too.
18 Sep 09 UTC Spring, 1911: On the bright side, if I go all holds now it won't really change anything.
02 Oct 09 UTC Thanks for a good game, fellas.

Start Backward Open large map Forward End

Turkey
Nazim (493 D)
Won. Bet: 17 D, won: 119 D
18 supply-centers, 17 units
France
Tru Ninja (1016 D (S))
Survived. Bet: 17 D
7 supply-centers, 6 units
Germany
Survived. Bet: 17 D
1 supply-centers, 1 units
England
KingWren (100 D)
Resigned. Bet: 17 D
8 supply-centers, 8 units
Austria
Attavior (1677 D)
Defeated. Bet: 17 D
Italy
Defeated. Bet: 17 D
Russia
WarGhoul (113 D)
Defeated. Bet: 17 D
Civil Disorders
KingWren (100 D)England (Autumn, 1913) with 8 centres.
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