Oh, and is it cheap unpretentious wine?

I was baptised as a Lutheran, but raised unreligiously and consider myself an agnostic. However, I'm interested in mysticism, sufism in particular. I believe that there may be other planes of existence, and if so, the way there is through personal reflection and development, not dogma. Don't know what I'd call myself but I can fill the slot for secular agnostic lutheran seekers if there is one ;)

It's whatever you want...

Though I'll be honest--I'm far more a Cognac person myself. ;)

OK, so...

obiwanobiwan: Jewish Atheism
President Eden: Existential...and then pick, Atheism or Agnosticism (I know you can lean agnostically atheist and all that, but as we're already going to probably have most people claim multiple leanings and/or a lot of forms of atheism/agnosticism, let's try and keep it to 2 "titles" per person...just a thought...)

LOL...case in point on people taking applicable to many vantage points--

Vaftrudner! :D

How does Lutheran Agnostic work for you?

obiwanobiwan: Jewish Atheism
President Eden: Existential Atheism/Agnosticism (either one...)
Vaftrudner: Lutheran Agnosticism?

Agnosticism and atheism are entirely different questions.

If we need to keep it to two titles, then existentialist atheism - your premise deals with the normative, not the positive.

Fuck it, just put me under "Undecided"

I like how agnosticism isn't good enough for Vaft, but "too close to call" is fine.

Lutheran Deism for 5 Alec! I believe there is a deity and I was raised Lutheran (still go to the ELCA) so I tend towards Lutheran piety in my daily life (i.e. not on this god-forsaken site where I let loose and let you all know what I pretend to think <grin>).

I'll go in as one of our two pagans. You can call me Wiccan if that's wasier.

Man, I was hoping CelticFox would be our pagan. Just kidding SD. I seriously musty have overlooked it in the past when you mentioned it. Must have been a bad month or something. :-)

LOL, I was totally joking about pouting about you not remembering. Man, like I remember everything about everybody.

It's also my understanding that the two of us follow pretty different routes of paganism, although I haven't sat down and laid it all out. A lot of my structure is based on Buddhism, although I use Greek pantheon (and Egyptian on certain occasions...they're just flat out better for things like Samhain than Greek, IMO).

@SD Not really just I follow the Celtic god more often then Greek or Egyptian as well as a very dualistic approach to everything.

But then again I';m also a solitary practitioner which sets me apart from a lot of the Pagans I know.

I consider it very much a "religion buffet" so while we're in the same restaurant, I think our plates probably look pretty different. That's just been my experience with pagans in general...everyone has their own kind of thing going on. Which is not bad, it's actually pretty good. Since we can usually agree on enough to not get irritated at each other.

I'm definitely not a goddess-focused pagan, I'm much more into duality. So sounds like we're about at the same place there. I understand the goddess-focused pagans who have the god basically just around as window dressing being rebellious against the long western tradition in religion of all divinity being masculine, but to me overcorrecting that is just as much of a disservice. They have equal spots at the table, in my mind.

I've gone to group rituals, but I consider myself mainly a solitary.

That's actually really weird and amusing that we're kinda the same but with some difference. Yeah I don't believe you can have one without the other and I really don't understand the people who worship only a goddess then blast christian for worshiping only a god.

I have done group rituals before, but I've found them to be more about who gets to be in power and all that bullshit then about actual faith. I don't need that political shit in my religion. I wouldn't go to a church because of it and I won't be in a coven cause of it.

Yeah, you have to have exactly the right coven, and I did for a while, and then the guy who ran it ended up dating the most pretentious, power-hungry, and fake woman I have ever met, who...yeah, it was easier just to walk away from that mess.

Oh, I know you were. But it was odd that I hadn't noticed you had mentioned it. And yeah, she seems more true to Wicca than you (she and I have talked a bit). Your views as described above are more pagan than Wicca specific.

We;; considering I don't do formal rituals that takes me out of the wicca category to some pureists.

I've never gotten why we have to think the creator/deity has to be male or female. It just is, kind of like His Noodliness. You never hear the FSM "wroshippers" argue about his sex.

And yes, I know the FSM "worshippers" are poking fun at religion and faith. That's why I used the "".

http://webdiplomacy.net/board.php?gameID=74265&viewArchive=Messages

Dec 21, 2011, Draugster.

Well, that explains it. It briefly came up in global chat (I see I think 5 references) four days before Christmas. Yep, just got overlooked.

Well, the creator/deity is both male and female to us pagans, Draug. Because it has all types of energy, including masculine and feminine. It's easier for us mentally if we separate it into equal male and female parts.

Although, as both Celtic and I mention, there's many people who overcorrect it into predominantly female.

And some, like me, who actually believe there's 1 god and 1 goddess.

Aha, there's our first major difference.

So it is. Yet though we believe differently we respect each others beliefs.

I'm pretty laissez faire when it comes to religion. Whatever anyone wants to believe or not believe is cool by me.

Which might make me a bad candidate for this sort of game.

Ditto SD ditto

THE PAGANS ARE TAKING OVER YOUR THREAD, OBI.

Anyway, back to the mention of paganism versus Wicca and which I identify with or am closer to.

You ask 100 Wiccans to describe Wicca, you'll get 120 different answers. It's not very codified. But the vast majority of those answers will be relatively similar. Wicca is also how paganism gets officially recognized, so for a variety of purposes it's easier to say Wicca (and there's no Wicca authority that will say "no you're not").

But most of us who have been pagan for some time have our own style that is similar in some ways to what the basic definition of Wicca is, but we also recognize that there's wide differences. So most of us will say we're pagan, but then throw Wicca out there as well since, really, pagan can mean anything, it at least helps nail it down a little even if it's not wholly accurate.

Honestly, I'm tempted to start a separate "Ask a Pagan" thread, I've done it on other forums, but I really don't want to deal with the trolling it would invite.

Imagine the drinking game we could come up with for it though.

I guess that's where my confusion comes in. For years in college, I maintained the alternative religions section at the local Waldenbooks. I read a lot of the material there voraciously. And pagan generally just meant "outside the mainstream" kind of like Catholics use to call all non-Catholic Christians "heretic". Druid was pagan. Wicca was pagan.

In fact:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paganism

That is what my view of the term pagan meant. so to me there isn't a pagan religion, but any non-Abrahamic religion is pagan by nature.

Right, Druid and Wicca are both pagan, but pretty different things. But for religious discrimination cases and such, we all identify as "Wiccan" because it's officially recognized. And for other things too...I have had two employers that had alternate holidays depending on religious preference (at one, my friend Rashid (a Muslim) and I would always end up working Christmas, which we didn't care at all about, but would get Eid or Yule off instead, guaranteed). But it had to be a recognized religion.

I believe paganism is any earth based faith. I could be wrong though.

I always end up working holidays like Easter and Christmas (My store is one of the few open on Christmas). I like to though since most people are just grateful we're open.

......................ok...........

I'll admit, I didn't forsee the Pagans coming...lol...

The pagans are revolting! Yes!
The pagans have always been revolting my lord, but now they are rebelling.

Sorry, pagans, peasants. It just popped into my head.

In broad strokes, paganism is any non-Abrahamic faith. In modern parlance, it usually means an earth-based alternative faith.

Nobody expects the Pagan Inquisiton!

Sorry again. I just keep havignthese humorous quotes that are so readily adaptable pop into my head today. And no, I haven't been hitting the scotch a bit early. I'm still at work for about 5 more minutes.

The Pagans are comng! The Pagans are coming! (from the little known movie "The Russians are Coming! The Russians are Coming!")

My wife's work actually encourages them to drink during their lunch break. So...there's that.

We joke about it. She works for the main office of a bank. Fiscal crisis: explained.

I went to school with someone who works at a brewery. She's always posting about the beer lunches on Fridays. So f'ing jealous!

Penis. That about sums up my contribution to this thread.

After re-reading a few of these last comments I think I need to go watch something from either Mel Brooks or Monty Python.

Listen, strange women lyin' in ponds watchin' movies is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical cinematic ceremony.